I am an American Canyon United for Responsible Growth Supporter. You know me, I am your neighbor, you kids coach, I sit next to you in church and we both like shopping the sales. I am on the PTO, in your favorite club, and meet with you in the park for our kids play dates.
I watch the city council meetings on cable and I sit in the audience. I commute to SF, Marin, Contra Costa, Fairfield, Sonoma, and Sacramento. I have a home office. I sell real estate, make mortgages, pump gas, make sandwiches, take x-rays attend chamber mixers. My son has cut your grass and my daughter babysits for you. This summer we are going to the lake together for a family outing. My wife is in your Bunco club and my husband plays cards on Fridays at the Casino.
I feed stray animals, deliver meals to those in need, care for my elderly parent, my handicapped niece or watch my grandchildren during the day. You know me because I volunteer in the city, own a business in the city, work in the city.
You know me and see me everyday. I am a supporter of American Canyon United for Responsible Growth I am not in your face yelling my position because there is no point to that. But I am ready if called upon like the "others" to show the city what is right and what is wrong. And when that day comes even you will be shocked at who I am.
Wal-Mart Discussion (all Wal-Mart related posts go here now)
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Guest
Re: Too Many To Count
My My, you are very busy. Perhaps you will enjoy the freedom to shop in the middle of the night since it sounds as if your days are pretty full.I am an American Canyon United for Responsible Growth Supporter. You know me, I am your neighbor, you kids coach, I sit next to you in church and we both like shopping the sales. I am on the PTO, in your favorite club, and meet with you in the park for our kids play dates.
I watch the city council meetings on cable and I sit in the audience. I commute to SF, Marin, Contra Costa, Fairfield, Sonoma, and Sacramento. I have a home office. I sell real estate, make mortgages, pump gas, make sandwiches, take x-rays attend chamber mixers. My son has cut your grass and my daughter babysits for you. This summer we are going to the lake together for a family outing. My wife is in your Bunco club and my husband plays cards on Fridays at the Casino.
I feed stray animals, deliver meals to those in need, care for my elderly parent, my handicapped niece or watch my grandchildren during the day. You know me because I volunteer in the city, own a business in the city, work in the city.
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Lives Here Too
Group
Has the bond been paid?
Even if it has been paid, it is too late. Wal-Mart and our crooked city attorney already gave WallMart their building permits so they can just build the stupid store regardless of what the court said.
Our city is chock full of crooks, liars and thieves. Every time I read the paper I get more angry. The council members are not a true representation of the voters in American Canyon today. They represent American Canyon of years past when this was nothing but a wind-blown trash heap of a trailer park heaven.
Now there are people here who CARE about our homes and city but have yet to clear out the low-life representatives that was elected by the previous majority of under-educated losers.
Maybe keep Coffee who at least had the good sense to fight against bringing the world's leading seller of cheap Chinese crap and slapping it right in the middle of our town. Oh well, I guess we elected her too late. It looks like we're going to be shopping at Wally-World sooner than expected..
Even if it has been paid, it is too late. Wal-Mart and our crooked city attorney already gave WallMart their building permits so they can just build the stupid store regardless of what the court said.
Our city is chock full of crooks, liars and thieves. Every time I read the paper I get more angry. The council members are not a true representation of the voters in American Canyon today. They represent American Canyon of years past when this was nothing but a wind-blown trash heap of a trailer park heaven.
Now there are people here who CARE about our homes and city but have yet to clear out the low-life representatives that was elected by the previous majority of under-educated losers.
Maybe keep Coffee who at least had the good sense to fight against bringing the world's leading seller of cheap Chinese crap and slapping it right in the middle of our town. Oh well, I guess we elected her too late. It looks like we're going to be shopping at Wally-World sooner than expected..
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guest
dont quit so fast
We are NOT going to be shopping at wally world. Even with permits, it doesn't matter, because with an injunction, the construction cannot move forward.
There is a hearing date in June, then a decision will come out in July. Let the courts work it out.
Meanwhile, start thinking about who you want on your city council, so we dont ever have this happen again. The planning commission also needs some new faces.
There is a hearing date in June, then a decision will come out in July. Let the courts work it out.
Meanwhile, start thinking about who you want on your city council, so we dont ever have this happen again. The planning commission also needs some new faces.
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Guest
There is no way the Courts will NOT allow Walmart to proceed. There is NO reason not too. This has been a big waste of time, and it is hurting the City and the majority of residents. There is a brand new Walmart Super Center in Stockton, and it is beautiful. That is what we are going to have here. A beautiful new commercial building that will really benefit this City. It is just too bad that people have to fight against everything good that is trying to happen here. Again, there is NO WAY the courts cannot vote against Walmart. I can't wait until it is built.
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Issa
- Webmaster/Founder
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Again I welcome the discussion, thanks to everyone whos been posting! Believe me, walmart is reading this, city officials are reading this, and news sources are too. So instead of whining for/against walmart, lets show them we have some brains and when the day comes to put this behind us we can look back and know we the citizens discussed this issue thoroughly and openly and came to our own judgement about walmart. Its obvious walmart and the city council didnt ask the community what they thought about all of this until it was approved, so now lets tell them why you do or dont.
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Guest
I still cant wait for it. I think all the blight that surrounds the outside of the Vallejo Walmart is the City of Vallejos fault for letting this happen. A lot areas around Vallejo look bad and that the is the Citys fault. On the other hand, I think the City of American Canyon wont stand for this. I think they will be on top of this project to make sure the the surrounding area will remain nice looking. Canyon Plaza looks nice, Safeway Center looks nice, and I think Walmart Center will look nice. And I do not believe that the City of AmCan will let Walmart turn ugly. I think they have to much at stake and too much to prove to everyone that it will work. Besides have you met Jim Cannon the Code Enforcement Officer of American Canyon? He is one tough cookie and he stays on top of it. I think this city needs to prove that this will work. As for you Issa, since your in San Diego can you stop by Dicks Last Resort in the gas lamp district and tell them about this new project and possibly setting up shop here. I think that would be awesome and a great asset to the area.
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Paul Maguire
- V.I.P.
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Supercenter to bring more grief than tax dollars
The tax dollars generated by Walmart are not worth the aggrevation that a supercenter will bring to our city.
Walmart will not be a clean center as some claim. It will bring excessive traffic, blowing trash, criminals, and blight. The big box will overwhelm the look of the city, and not blend in.
It will bring shoppers from all around, who want the cheapest price, driving down american canyon road, highway 12, and clogging up 29. You thought new homeowners brought traffic, hardly, compared to this monster.
At the park, you will have crime, blowing trash, punks with nothing to do hanging out, potential dope sales at all hours of the night, right next to the low income apartments, with a few tenants potentially selling dope to make the rent. It won't look so noticable, with a 24 hour store next door with buyers coming and going. Having owned several apartments, drugs and tenants in low income units are a fact of life, and coming soon to American Canyon. It is very tough to manage a building that is all low income. Mixed buildings are much easier. As I understand it, this is mostly or all low income in these units.
The crime in apartments will be a function of management, which is a crapshoot most of the time. We can only hope that they screen well, but the bottom line is with vacancy, you are losing money, and the qualifications start dropping with long term vacancies. Filling up apartments, low income or not, can be tough. Tougher still, is keeping them crime free, regardless of the income level. With 24 hours of activity right next door, plan on illegal activity as well. It is a perfect cover.
Given that it was recently revealed by the outgoing planning director Ed Hayworth at the last city council meeting, that Canyon Rock Apartments (NE corner of 29 and AC Road) will not be moving forward, because their market research shows that it would be tough to fill the units, what do they expect at Napa Junction? Oh ya, but its low income, so that will make a difference. Will it? Time will tell.
(BTW- This Canyon Rock Apartment deal was a non starter from the get go, and I said so at the city council meeting prior to its approval. This group got the zoning changes and exceptions, and now, cannot build the project, because the project is not financially viable. I am sure they shopped the project, could not sell it, and as Ed said, now plan to come back and ask for Townhomes to be sold , which IS viable, and would be affordable if built. However, is that the right site for townhomes? Thats questionable.) Back to Walmart...
Plan on having car alarms going off at 2, 3, 4, 5 am right next to the apartments, as they do now in Safeway while people shop in the store. Shoppers will be in the store all the while, not hearing a thing, while those living nearby will lie awake at night waiting for the alarm to go off.
Trucks will bring deliveries in the early morning hours, with the back up alarm blasting as they back up into the loading bay. You will hear these alarms for at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile, so plan on it up in the hills. Those living along AC Road in La Vigne should plan on hearing trucks motor down and airbrakes at the stop light at all hours.
Light pollution will be huge. From the big red walmart sign, you will see Oat Hill become Devil Hill as it will be red every night now. ( Like Mt Diablo from the sunset). Some will try to get Walmart to dim its light, but they will fight it.
And finally, traffic will be another nightmare, with back ups for miles from the new frequently red light and walmarts customers as they come and go. Just like the light at highway 12 backs up cars for for miles going north and southbound, so will the light on 29 back up cars as well. Rear end accidents will be common as out of town travelers race down 29, come over the hill, to find a sudden long line of backed up cars.
Who knows if the left turn lanes will be long enough to accomodate the cars on days with sales or events, or even normal business days. If not, plan on those left turn lane cars blocking the second lane on highway 29, making 29 a 1 lane highway and bringing traffic to crawl.
A supercenter will bring excessive traffic beyond anyones imagination. All the while, cars will be ripping through american canyon at 50-60 miles per hour, as no one can seem to get any agreement from Cal Trans to slow em down, to a more reasonable and much safer 40 mph.
There will be more traffic accidents than we have now, and more lawsuits against the city for these intersections created for this center, a center that never did a CEQA study. I am sure some attorney will use that against the city somehow.
Finally, there of those of us who live here, who will be shaking our heads, wondering, how did this mess ever happen in the first place. Here we have a town that has limited access in and out. It is already a log jam, and the town is far from being built out.
This is the wrong type of project(supercenter). The 3 small retail tenants made much more sense, and the project was approved that way and would bring much less in the way of traffic, blight, and crime.
For the developer to say they looked for a tenant for 2 years and this one just happen to step up after the approval seems rather coincidental, doesn't it.
I once heard a judge say" where there is smoke, there is fire".
We are all interested to hear what this Napa judge has to say about this approval.
Walmart Supercenters are welcome in many communities. This is not one of them, and the topography and access is one of the biggest reasons. But superior to all, is the majority of residents just dont want a massive big box building to overshadow the entire city.
Am Can United might consider a petition banning big box stores like Palo Alto and St Helena have, the home of two of hte principal developers. Lets get it on the ballot, and we will see real fast how many support Big Box stores like Walmart in this town. ( oh ya, its the unions,against us, its the unions- ya right)
The city should put in a city transfer tax on real property like most other cities around here. The voters would likely support it, especially if some of the money was guaranteed to improve roads. I brought it up in December, and I think it makes sense, and would be nominal on homeowners given the equity most are enjoying these days. IT would raise much more money for infrastructure projects like roads and traffic that most everyone wants around here.
Lets hope the Napa courts get it right. We will know by mid summer.
Walmart will not be a clean center as some claim. It will bring excessive traffic, blowing trash, criminals, and blight. The big box will overwhelm the look of the city, and not blend in.
It will bring shoppers from all around, who want the cheapest price, driving down american canyon road, highway 12, and clogging up 29. You thought new homeowners brought traffic, hardly, compared to this monster.
At the park, you will have crime, blowing trash, punks with nothing to do hanging out, potential dope sales at all hours of the night, right next to the low income apartments, with a few tenants potentially selling dope to make the rent. It won't look so noticable, with a 24 hour store next door with buyers coming and going. Having owned several apartments, drugs and tenants in low income units are a fact of life, and coming soon to American Canyon. It is very tough to manage a building that is all low income. Mixed buildings are much easier. As I understand it, this is mostly or all low income in these units.
The crime in apartments will be a function of management, which is a crapshoot most of the time. We can only hope that they screen well, but the bottom line is with vacancy, you are losing money, and the qualifications start dropping with long term vacancies. Filling up apartments, low income or not, can be tough. Tougher still, is keeping them crime free, regardless of the income level. With 24 hours of activity right next door, plan on illegal activity as well. It is a perfect cover.
Given that it was recently revealed by the outgoing planning director Ed Hayworth at the last city council meeting, that Canyon Rock Apartments (NE corner of 29 and AC Road) will not be moving forward, because their market research shows that it would be tough to fill the units, what do they expect at Napa Junction? Oh ya, but its low income, so that will make a difference. Will it? Time will tell.
(BTW- This Canyon Rock Apartment deal was a non starter from the get go, and I said so at the city council meeting prior to its approval. This group got the zoning changes and exceptions, and now, cannot build the project, because the project is not financially viable. I am sure they shopped the project, could not sell it, and as Ed said, now plan to come back and ask for Townhomes to be sold , which IS viable, and would be affordable if built. However, is that the right site for townhomes? Thats questionable.) Back to Walmart...
Plan on having car alarms going off at 2, 3, 4, 5 am right next to the apartments, as they do now in Safeway while people shop in the store. Shoppers will be in the store all the while, not hearing a thing, while those living nearby will lie awake at night waiting for the alarm to go off.
Trucks will bring deliveries in the early morning hours, with the back up alarm blasting as they back up into the loading bay. You will hear these alarms for at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile, so plan on it up in the hills. Those living along AC Road in La Vigne should plan on hearing trucks motor down and airbrakes at the stop light at all hours.
Light pollution will be huge. From the big red walmart sign, you will see Oat Hill become Devil Hill as it will be red every night now. ( Like Mt Diablo from the sunset). Some will try to get Walmart to dim its light, but they will fight it.
And finally, traffic will be another nightmare, with back ups for miles from the new frequently red light and walmarts customers as they come and go. Just like the light at highway 12 backs up cars for for miles going north and southbound, so will the light on 29 back up cars as well. Rear end accidents will be common as out of town travelers race down 29, come over the hill, to find a sudden long line of backed up cars.
Who knows if the left turn lanes will be long enough to accomodate the cars on days with sales or events, or even normal business days. If not, plan on those left turn lane cars blocking the second lane on highway 29, making 29 a 1 lane highway and bringing traffic to crawl.
A supercenter will bring excessive traffic beyond anyones imagination. All the while, cars will be ripping through american canyon at 50-60 miles per hour, as no one can seem to get any agreement from Cal Trans to slow em down, to a more reasonable and much safer 40 mph.
There will be more traffic accidents than we have now, and more lawsuits against the city for these intersections created for this center, a center that never did a CEQA study. I am sure some attorney will use that against the city somehow.
Finally, there of those of us who live here, who will be shaking our heads, wondering, how did this mess ever happen in the first place. Here we have a town that has limited access in and out. It is already a log jam, and the town is far from being built out.
This is the wrong type of project(supercenter). The 3 small retail tenants made much more sense, and the project was approved that way and would bring much less in the way of traffic, blight, and crime.
For the developer to say they looked for a tenant for 2 years and this one just happen to step up after the approval seems rather coincidental, doesn't it.
I once heard a judge say" where there is smoke, there is fire".
We are all interested to hear what this Napa judge has to say about this approval.
Walmart Supercenters are welcome in many communities. This is not one of them, and the topography and access is one of the biggest reasons. But superior to all, is the majority of residents just dont want a massive big box building to overshadow the entire city.
Am Can United might consider a petition banning big box stores like Palo Alto and St Helena have, the home of two of hte principal developers. Lets get it on the ballot, and we will see real fast how many support Big Box stores like Walmart in this town. ( oh ya, its the unions,against us, its the unions- ya right)
The city should put in a city transfer tax on real property like most other cities around here. The voters would likely support it, especially if some of the money was guaranteed to improve roads. I brought it up in December, and I think it makes sense, and would be nominal on homeowners given the equity most are enjoying these days. IT would raise much more money for infrastructure projects like roads and traffic that most everyone wants around here.
Lets hope the Napa courts get it right. We will know by mid summer.
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Issa
- Webmaster/Founder
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Never been to there, will do a search and check it out. BTW: I deleted your post about Paul, keep your posts constructive not offensive come on, how many times do I gotta sit here and babysit all of you!As for you Issa, since your in San Diego can you stop by Dicks Last Resort in the gas lamp district and tell them about this new project and possibly setting up shop here. I think that would be awesome and a great asset to the area.
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
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arco guy
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WhatDaHey
HERE IT COMES
Wal-Mart is coming! They fought to build their fence and they fought ot make other improvements, now they will fight for a little more and a little more, each time appearing to be small requests until the final request to the judge is "You may as well let us stock the shelves." One way or another WAL-MART will win. American Canyon better just learn to live with it.
Supercenters are nice anyway. Nicer than the small Wal-Marts. Supercenters bring in a higher class of people. Give it a chance, you really have no choice anyways.
Supercenters are nice anyway. Nicer than the small Wal-Marts. Supercenters bring in a higher class of people. Give it a chance, you really have no choice anyways.
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guest
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
If it does get built, get it UNIONIZED. They'll bail in a New York Minute just like they did in Canada. But this isn't about unions... its about poor planning by the crooked politicians who can't read the General Plan properly. I can just see the number of $99 checks WalMart gave to the candidates who ran for office last time... including you know who... AND just watch who will get funding on the next election
AND just watch who will get funding on the next election -
Guest
I wonder about those in favour of Wal-mart, how will they feel when their house prices drop 10-20%. Will you still welcome low prices of this store (so that you can save may be $50 a month). Will you feel secure when graffity gangs destroys your neighbours. Or when vehicle theft rate doubles. Will you be happy then?? Is there denial going on or walmart pays you guys to speak in favour of them!
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Guest
You are pathetic. And i only say that because of all the lame excusses you have for EVERYTHING...or do i say this because Walmart is paying me? hmm....
As for 'WhatDaHey'...i agree! last time i was in washington (about a year ago) i went to a supercenter...no regular walmart could compair to this. It CLEAN...the outsides are VERY CLEAN and there is NO graffiti AND the city it was in was one of the nicest cities i have ever been it!
Oh and one more thing...$50 can be a lot when you dont make as much as the snobs in all those new homes.
As for 'WhatDaHey'...i agree! last time i was in washington (about a year ago) i went to a supercenter...no regular walmart could compair to this. It CLEAN...the outsides are VERY CLEAN and there is NO graffiti AND the city it was in was one of the nicest cities i have ever been it!
Oh and one more thing...$50 can be a lot when you dont make as much as the snobs in all those new homes.
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Guest
i will admit it...i was a little pissed off at all the excusses and i guess i shouldnt have 'taken my anger out' on the individuals in the newer homes...but all this crap about walmart paying people, this council memeber did this, what about fixing this?, assumptions...PEOPLE, CALM DOWN! The city cant do everything at once...YES there are things that need to be changed...but do you think the city doesnt know this? I appologise if i offended anyone.
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Guest
Starbucks inside Walmart
Do you think when Walmart opens soon, they will have a Starbucks inside? We really need one on that side of town.
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Guest
City files in court on Walmart?
I only caught a little of the conversation last night at the city council meeting regarding the city filing an appeal in court on the Walmart stay?
If someone knows info regarding this matter please fill us in.
If someone knows info regarding this matter please fill us in.
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WhatDaHey
HOOORAY
I just heard that Wal-Mart has paid off our city manager and some of the council members to help grease the skids and get the city to appeal their construction halt. That way it won't look like it is just Wal-MArt but the judge will know that the whole city wants the Wal-Mart with the exseption of the union and two crazies who think they are too good for Wal-Mart bargains. I am not in favor of paying off governments but when the community is being run by currupt unions then big retailers have to do what they have to do conduct business in the naighborhood.
CRAZY AMERICAN CANYON UNITED GROUP BE DAMNED. We will have our Supper Center!!!!
CRAZY AMERICAN CANYON UNITED GROUP BE DAMNED. We will have our Supper Center!!!!
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Guest
What the hay indeed
Supper center? Naighborhood?
I can see why you love walmart so much, you probably work at mcdonalds and cant afford anything decent from mervyns! I wonder what the collective IQ is of all these pro walmart people in town.
I can see why you love walmart so much, you probably work at mcdonalds and cant afford anything decent from mervyns! I wonder what the collective IQ is of all these pro walmart people in town.
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Guest
Guest,
You may believe that we have a low IQ ...but you high IQ individuals.....(or maybe just YOU) need to take a look in the mirror...lets look at how childish that remark actually was...WhatDaHey was just mentioning a rumour that s/he heard...it may be true...it may not be true...s/he just useing this forum exactly how it should be used. Now you just start making offenses to not just this person...but EVERYONE who is pro-walmart...maybe you should act your age...just a little bit.
You may believe that we have a low IQ ...but you high IQ individuals.....(or maybe just YOU) need to take a look in the mirror...lets look at how childish that remark actually was...WhatDaHey was just mentioning a rumour that s/he heard...it may be true...it may not be true...s/he just useing this forum exactly how it should be used. Now you just start making offenses to not just this person...but EVERYONE who is pro-walmart...maybe you should act your age...just a little bit.
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Guest
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Paul Maguire
- V.I.P.
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:46 pm
- Location: American Canyon
- Contact:
"Rumors"
"Whatthehey" posts that she/he has heard rumors that Walmart paid off the city manager and other city officials.
I think that is a bit over the top. Rumor spreading individuals are whats wrong with society and this community. That is a very vicious rumor, which is in fact saying essentially that hte city manager committed a crime(ie took a bribe) and that some other city officials did the same, according to the "RUMOR".
Would it not be more productive to end these rumors when heard, rather than spreading all this gossip. that is usually untrue, altered, or used for purposes to discredit others.
Better yet, lets clear up all the gossip on walmart by full disclosure of the facts. Perhaps we should have an independant review by a reputable third party, with the power to review all the documents, and interview, that will provide a pubic report of its findings. If there is nothing there, then there is nothing there. If there is some impropriety, lets find out, and deal with it.
Doing so might be rather difficult with civil litigation pending. But once that litigation is resolved, which may be this year, our council can hire and have an independant review of this matter.
That might not be such a bad idea anyway, as no matter what side of the issue you're on, most would agree this may have been handled a better than it was.
At the end of the day, local government is hampered at minimum and brought to disaster ( Orange County Bankruptcy) at the worse by fraud, corruption, bad judgements, or bribery.
Such rumors should be proved or ended.
I think that is a bit over the top. Rumor spreading individuals are whats wrong with society and this community. That is a very vicious rumor, which is in fact saying essentially that hte city manager committed a crime(ie took a bribe) and that some other city officials did the same, according to the "RUMOR".
Would it not be more productive to end these rumors when heard, rather than spreading all this gossip. that is usually untrue, altered, or used for purposes to discredit others.
Better yet, lets clear up all the gossip on walmart by full disclosure of the facts. Perhaps we should have an independant review by a reputable third party, with the power to review all the documents, and interview, that will provide a pubic report of its findings. If there is nothing there, then there is nothing there. If there is some impropriety, lets find out, and deal with it.
Doing so might be rather difficult with civil litigation pending. But once that litigation is resolved, which may be this year, our council can hire and have an independant review of this matter.
That might not be such a bad idea anyway, as no matter what side of the issue you're on, most would agree this may have been handled a better than it was.
At the end of the day, local government is hampered at minimum and brought to disaster ( Orange County Bankruptcy) at the worse by fraud, corruption, bad judgements, or bribery.
Such rumors should be proved or ended.
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a/c resident
missing the point
As per usual the small group of Supercenter wanters are MISSING the point. The group is opposed to a 220K square foot supercenter pretending to be a downtown.
If you took the time to research for example read the stock portfolios and the future expansion into the California Market. You would realize that this is only a temporary home for the Super Wal-Mart. Demographically it does not fit into the plan for the future of the corporation.
Wal-Mart lost it's lease in Vallejo and has to be out by the end of the year. This loose approval by the city for 3 buildings was blurred to create a quick way out for the retailer. The city which maintains it told the public during the approval meetings is wrong as it is not on any of the minutes.
The actual sites will be closer to main freeways such as the Fairgrounds on 80. Wal-Mart believes that by building or maintaining some sort of following that the people will travel to a better store on the freeway when it is built. But that is 5 to 8 years away.
Wal-Mart can't afford to lose customer base to Target. So it is better that they open for a short period of time and close the building. Anybody who knows anything about business knows that Wal-Mart will not make any money in American Canyon. Currently the shoppers from American Canyon total less than 5% of their customer core. So if it moves to American Canyon do you really think that number will actually increase enough to validate the money they spent to move a store, build a store, and buy land? No and definitely not long term.
All over the nation Wal-Mart does the same thing over and over again. Same scenario different cities. It is all on the internet. The people who do not support this supercenter, do so for a variety of reasons and while some don't like Wal-Mart, most don't want the huge mass and associated expenses the city will incur that accompany this type of store. Again by researching you will find that small police departments can't handle the number of shoplifting complaints or other requests generally associated with a 24/7 store of this size. If the current police department can't answer calls to the mobile home parks what makes you think they handle the calls from a Wal-Mart?
The city manager and the developer turned in an adjusted economic study for the project. The original total was an expected 600K in tax revenue to the city. During that time the city manager also added that we can expect to pay an additional 200K or so for added police. However when the adjusted total was turned in it was closer to 400K. So if you just deducted the police and not the associated maintenance we only make 200K not including those deductions.
And don't forget the loss of income from Safeway because it will close within 14 months. Is that what we want? Who will rent that space? If Quiznos couldn't make it and other tenants are struggling do you really think they will last without the Safeway?
How about the new center across the street? Is it fair to that developer? And now I have heard that the developer Butler only wants franchise businesses in the other part of the development. So much for small business development. Is that what the city wants? I am sure it was a caveat to get Wal-Mart's business. God forbid if a new business shared the same lot.
It is those educated people who actually took the time to look at this company, it's track record, and find where it is usually successful. Educated does not mean a degree it simply means you took the time to do your research and not rely on rumors.
None of those perameters mentioned above exist nor is it logical to assume that American Canyon would be anything but a stopover to the actual and expected goal of this company.
I think before you write anything supporting or not-supporting this project you should get your information right. By reading the illiterate and unresponsive and quite simply stupid replies from both sides it frightens me. Get the facts and debate the facts not how much you think you save on your clothes that disintegrate in the first washing.
There is a whole shopping mentality that is promoted by Wal-Mart and by paying low wages they have a built in customer base. It is all out there for the taking just read and comprehend. That is all I ask.
If you took the time to research for example read the stock portfolios and the future expansion into the California Market. You would realize that this is only a temporary home for the Super Wal-Mart. Demographically it does not fit into the plan for the future of the corporation.
Wal-Mart lost it's lease in Vallejo and has to be out by the end of the year. This loose approval by the city for 3 buildings was blurred to create a quick way out for the retailer. The city which maintains it told the public during the approval meetings is wrong as it is not on any of the minutes.
The actual sites will be closer to main freeways such as the Fairgrounds on 80. Wal-Mart believes that by building or maintaining some sort of following that the people will travel to a better store on the freeway when it is built. But that is 5 to 8 years away.
Wal-Mart can't afford to lose customer base to Target. So it is better that they open for a short period of time and close the building. Anybody who knows anything about business knows that Wal-Mart will not make any money in American Canyon. Currently the shoppers from American Canyon total less than 5% of their customer core. So if it moves to American Canyon do you really think that number will actually increase enough to validate the money they spent to move a store, build a store, and buy land? No and definitely not long term.
All over the nation Wal-Mart does the same thing over and over again. Same scenario different cities. It is all on the internet. The people who do not support this supercenter, do so for a variety of reasons and while some don't like Wal-Mart, most don't want the huge mass and associated expenses the city will incur that accompany this type of store. Again by researching you will find that small police departments can't handle the number of shoplifting complaints or other requests generally associated with a 24/7 store of this size. If the current police department can't answer calls to the mobile home parks what makes you think they handle the calls from a Wal-Mart?
The city manager and the developer turned in an adjusted economic study for the project. The original total was an expected 600K in tax revenue to the city. During that time the city manager also added that we can expect to pay an additional 200K or so for added police. However when the adjusted total was turned in it was closer to 400K. So if you just deducted the police and not the associated maintenance we only make 200K not including those deductions.
And don't forget the loss of income from Safeway because it will close within 14 months. Is that what we want? Who will rent that space? If Quiznos couldn't make it and other tenants are struggling do you really think they will last without the Safeway?
How about the new center across the street? Is it fair to that developer? And now I have heard that the developer Butler only wants franchise businesses in the other part of the development. So much for small business development. Is that what the city wants? I am sure it was a caveat to get Wal-Mart's business. God forbid if a new business shared the same lot.
It is those educated people who actually took the time to look at this company, it's track record, and find where it is usually successful. Educated does not mean a degree it simply means you took the time to do your research and not rely on rumors.
None of those perameters mentioned above exist nor is it logical to assume that American Canyon would be anything but a stopover to the actual and expected goal of this company.
I think before you write anything supporting or not-supporting this project you should get your information right. By reading the illiterate and unresponsive and quite simply stupid replies from both sides it frightens me. Get the facts and debate the facts not how much you think you save on your clothes that disintegrate in the first washing.
There is a whole shopping mentality that is promoted by Wal-Mart and by paying low wages they have a built in customer base. It is all out there for the taking just read and comprehend. That is all I ask.
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SoHappyTogether
Typos and Inuendos
As for anyone supporting the Wal-Mart having a low IQ, I am offended by that statement. I am considered quite bright. I simply feel that Wal-Mart has every right to be here. They have done what they need to do and they got the proper approvals. It is not their fault if our city is corrupt and has some very bad planners. They dealt with the system into which they came. They played by our city's rules and we are compelled to allow them to build.
Now, there is a group of people who have decided that they don't want them here AFTER they went through all of our required approvals. I am sorry, you are too late. They are coming. And if the rumor is true that they are paying off many of the city staff and elected officials, then they are still simply dealing within the system into which they are moving. We may have a corrupt council. Don't blame Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is simply a money-making corporation. They owe us nothing.
We have to live with the mess left by our lack of involvement when we had the chance, and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we don't keep an eye on what our council is doing. Perhaps if the Wal-Mart comes and then closes later as one writer suggested, we will know better next time and make certain that our next elected council truly represents our population instead of a group of home-shopping-network junkies who will fall for the first snake oil salesman that comes to town and buys them off with $20 bucks and a couple of Red Lobster gift certificates. Our community has been sold for some shiny pebbles. Do we blame the guy who got the good deal or do we blame the guy who sold us so cheaply?
Also, I have read many posts from "Paul MacGuire" on here and all that I have to say is "wow" I believe Mr. MacGuire might just be the missing statue from Santa Rosa because he is a wishy-washy Charlie Brown if I have ever witnessed one. I don't mean to be cruel, I am certain he is a nice guy. It is simply that his opinions seem to be so completely contrived that I find myself gagging and sometimes actually throwing up, but just a little.
Now, there is a group of people who have decided that they don't want them here AFTER they went through all of our required approvals. I am sorry, you are too late. They are coming. And if the rumor is true that they are paying off many of the city staff and elected officials, then they are still simply dealing within the system into which they are moving. We may have a corrupt council. Don't blame Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is simply a money-making corporation. They owe us nothing.
We have to live with the mess left by our lack of involvement when we had the chance, and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we don't keep an eye on what our council is doing. Perhaps if the Wal-Mart comes and then closes later as one writer suggested, we will know better next time and make certain that our next elected council truly represents our population instead of a group of home-shopping-network junkies who will fall for the first snake oil salesman that comes to town and buys them off with $20 bucks and a couple of Red Lobster gift certificates. Our community has been sold for some shiny pebbles. Do we blame the guy who got the good deal or do we blame the guy who sold us so cheaply?
Also, I have read many posts from "Paul MacGuire" on here and all that I have to say is "wow" I believe Mr. MacGuire might just be the missing statue from Santa Rosa because he is a wishy-washy Charlie Brown if I have ever witnessed one. I don't mean to be cruel, I am certain he is a nice guy. It is simply that his opinions seem to be so completely contrived that I find myself gagging and sometimes actually throwing up, but just a little.
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mindingcitybiz
- V.I.P.
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:30 pm
Walmart
Getting the facts would mean you would have to have an open mind being able to look at all the information and base your judgement on that. Too bad our city council & planners didn't do all the research before they got us into this mess. 
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
I was at the Planning Commission hearings and several Council hearings and it was VERY VERY obvious that the City Council had made up their minds to go with the "big box" idea well in advance of any evidence to the contrary. And to be honest, Target, Home Depot, Kohl's and any other BB going concern would produce the same problems... it is just Wal-Mart is undoubtedly the worst-case scenario.
If you get the transcripts, Vince Butler starts all of his presentations with the following words...
"In 1996, the City of American Canyon turned down Redevelopment". He goes on to say how Wal-Mart will ensure NO REDEVELOPMENT EVER TAKES PLACE at Napa Junction.
This is what is called the "hook" because it is MUSIC to the Council's ears that vindicates the reason they were elected. Vince is quite masterful at this manipulation.
Well Mr. Butler, please note that the research I've done shows that when Wal-marts PULLED OUT of their promises in other cities, the likelyhood of redevelopment, or the NEED for redevelopment, increased geometrically because of the decimation to surrounding business infrastructure and the inability to recover tax dollars due to the "scorched earth" left behind. To quote someone I heard at the meetings... you have put ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.
I find it quite humorous that the folks who took over because of Redevelopment are now placing this City in its clutches if this project goes in... and then collapses. Well, Donny C. has already made his pile of cash and fled. What about the rest of you?
It is well to note the Pam Quiroz (not on the PC anymore folks!!) is the latest casualty for what happens when PCs attempt to make up their own minds and do what's best for the City. She's worth 10 of any of the other Commissioners including the Chairman.
Andy Finco was cut-loose the year before for opposing the WHOLE SOUTHEAST PLAN. It is a recipe for disaster because it has no linkage to anything else going on in the City and in some ways, directly stiffles development in the "needier" areas of what I call the "trash 29" corridor. 8 years later and the place still has a "unkempt" appearance... no work on the median, no undergrounding of the overhead powerlines, and a Traffic Planner that obviously has only planned circulation models in "FantasyLand".
I have NEVER seen a Council and PC in more need of change. Perhaps the City Manager needs to go. Definitely the City Attorney needs to go.
If you get the transcripts, Vince Butler starts all of his presentations with the following words...
"In 1996, the City of American Canyon turned down Redevelopment". He goes on to say how Wal-Mart will ensure NO REDEVELOPMENT EVER TAKES PLACE at Napa Junction.
This is what is called the "hook" because it is MUSIC to the Council's ears that vindicates the reason they were elected. Vince is quite masterful at this manipulation.
Well Mr. Butler, please note that the research I've done shows that when Wal-marts PULLED OUT of their promises in other cities, the likelyhood of redevelopment, or the NEED for redevelopment, increased geometrically because of the decimation to surrounding business infrastructure and the inability to recover tax dollars due to the "scorched earth" left behind. To quote someone I heard at the meetings... you have put ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.
I find it quite humorous that the folks who took over because of Redevelopment are now placing this City in its clutches if this project goes in... and then collapses. Well, Donny C. has already made his pile of cash and fled. What about the rest of you?
It is well to note the Pam Quiroz (not on the PC anymore folks!!) is the latest casualty for what happens when PCs attempt to make up their own minds and do what's best for the City. She's worth 10 of any of the other Commissioners including the Chairman.
Andy Finco was cut-loose the year before for opposing the WHOLE SOUTHEAST PLAN. It is a recipe for disaster because it has no linkage to anything else going on in the City and in some ways, directly stiffles development in the "needier" areas of what I call the "trash 29" corridor. 8 years later and the place still has a "unkempt" appearance... no work on the median, no undergrounding of the overhead powerlines, and a Traffic Planner that obviously has only planned circulation models in "FantasyLand".
I have NEVER seen a Council and PC in more need of change. Perhaps the City Manager needs to go. Definitely the City Attorney needs to go.
MeadowsGuy this sort of answers my questions in another section. I understand why you wish the city manager to leave. I to feel that it is wrong for an employee of the city to appear to have so much power, but why the attorney. Surely he is following only what is written in the law books etc. If this sounds a daft question I apologise...just want to get things clear in my mind.
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homeboy
walmart and such
I read this forum about once a week, and am always entertained by the comments!
First: Pam Findley was not removed from the planning commission because of her stance on Walamrt. She simply, did not have the time to attend the many meetings that will be required of her in the General Plan update meetings that are coming forward. Andy Finco was not re-appointed as he was not in complete support of the affordable housing that the city must provide per state law.
2. Not one council member has ever taken any monies from anyone that would be illegal. Nor has anyone of them been approached to do such.
Rumors like these, discredit the election process of which we all stand on as a free nation. Council members live in a "fish bowl" and take comments that are personal from every citizen that desires to do such. Are there any citizens that can say the same about themselves? When a person becomes an elected or appointed official they are targets for every person in the community when something doesn't please every person.
Fair? No, but that is how life is. Take a stance on something and some one will not like it. Life goes on........
First: Pam Findley was not removed from the planning commission because of her stance on Walamrt. She simply, did not have the time to attend the many meetings that will be required of her in the General Plan update meetings that are coming forward. Andy Finco was not re-appointed as he was not in complete support of the affordable housing that the city must provide per state law.
2. Not one council member has ever taken any monies from anyone that would be illegal. Nor has anyone of them been approached to do such.
Rumors like these, discredit the election process of which we all stand on as a free nation. Council members live in a "fish bowl" and take comments that are personal from every citizen that desires to do such. Are there any citizens that can say the same about themselves? When a person becomes an elected or appointed official they are targets for every person in the community when something doesn't please every person.
Fair? No, but that is how life is. Take a stance on something and some one will not like it. Life goes on........
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
Homeboy, I spoke to Andy and my comments stand. He was setup. He feels he was setup and there were several options on the affordable housing plan that could have been taken at his suggestion but went ignored. Pam was quoted in the paper as not understanding why she was asked to re-apply for the PC and then, to her surprise, cut loose. I think we can read between the lines. As for the $99 checks, you are absolutely RIGHT !! They are not illegal, (I didn't say they were illegal) but they are given and accepted... and as such (below $100) are not required to be reported to the Fair Political Practices Commission. So if Wal-Mart was greasing the wheels, we the public wouldn't have known about it... tricky little devils aren't they?
Linda, EVERY property, residential and commercial are under the Prop13 cap... 1.25% of Assessed Value. Every home that is built in AmCan is essentially a drag on the City in a five-year term. That is not to say we shouldn't build homes, but care must be taken to BALANCE ... let me say this again .... BALANCE the number of homes you build to the number of incoming producing properties (commercial). For the past 5 years, we have seen DISPROPORTIONATE residential housing to commerical ratio. Our local jobs-to-housing balance is downright absurd... unless you are calling food services and shelf stocking lifetime vocations.
It looks like this in the simplest terms: First the State gets a cut (about 50%, then Napa County takes a cut (5-10%), then AmCan gets the rest.
Take a $1,000,000 home assessed value
Year 1 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 2,000
Year 2 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 3,000
Year 3 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 4,000
The exact math is tricky because the property taxes DO RISE... approx 1/4% of Assessed Value /year minus the base value (in this case 1 million) so if your home goes up 200K, the incremental tax is about $400 but even this is NEVER ENOUGH to cover the City's carrying cost which rise higher than .25% per year.
Around year 5, the taxes you are paying for your house become less than the City's cost for upkeep. They need to pave roads, upgrade water pipes, hire inspectors, fuel their trucks, etc. THIS IS NATURAL... the City's carrying costs always rise.
The exact numbers are admittedly arguable but the general view is that the City's upkeep cost always rises. Tell me the last time your taxes went down? In order not to run "in the red", the City must CONSTANTLY develop commercial and industrial property. So the NEED for a Wal-Mart or Target or Home Depot or whatever seems to arise from bad planning practices in residential development... which, strangely enough is exactly where we are today. What they should do is build, then pause and measure. Once they see the effect of the build, they can determine whether or not to keep building. This also has the effect of not angering folks who are now facing ever crowded conditions on the roadways. What they DID, was just build, biuld, build.
OK, but don't take my word for all this.... please do your own research...
I offer two very good sites that frame the argument well on both sides. Please make up your own mind...
http://www.hjta.org/prop13.htm
http://caltaxreform.org/infrastructure.htm
And to both of you, Homeboy and Linda, I have ready many of your postings and respect your views. My personal history with this City runs very deep. When I see what was promised vs what we have today, I am sorrowed by our leaders lack of vision and wisdom. Where we are with Wal-Mart is no accident. It is the result of a betrayal of faith in what American Canyon can become... I believe a signature City that can put the City of Napa to shame!! One day you will both know who I am and it will make sense.
Linda, EVERY property, residential and commercial are under the Prop13 cap... 1.25% of Assessed Value. Every home that is built in AmCan is essentially a drag on the City in a five-year term. That is not to say we shouldn't build homes, but care must be taken to BALANCE ... let me say this again .... BALANCE the number of homes you build to the number of incoming producing properties (commercial). For the past 5 years, we have seen DISPROPORTIONATE residential housing to commerical ratio. Our local jobs-to-housing balance is downright absurd... unless you are calling food services and shelf stocking lifetime vocations.
It looks like this in the simplest terms: First the State gets a cut (about 50%, then Napa County takes a cut (5-10%), then AmCan gets the rest.
Take a $1,000,000 home assessed value
Year 1 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 2,000
Year 2 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 3,000
Year 3 : Tax revenue $12,500
AmCans cut: 5,500
Cost to the City for upkeep 4,000
The exact math is tricky because the property taxes DO RISE... approx 1/4% of Assessed Value /year minus the base value (in this case 1 million) so if your home goes up 200K, the incremental tax is about $400 but even this is NEVER ENOUGH to cover the City's carrying cost which rise higher than .25% per year.
Around year 5, the taxes you are paying for your house become less than the City's cost for upkeep. They need to pave roads, upgrade water pipes, hire inspectors, fuel their trucks, etc. THIS IS NATURAL... the City's carrying costs always rise.
The exact numbers are admittedly arguable but the general view is that the City's upkeep cost always rises. Tell me the last time your taxes went down? In order not to run "in the red", the City must CONSTANTLY develop commercial and industrial property. So the NEED for a Wal-Mart or Target or Home Depot or whatever seems to arise from bad planning practices in residential development... which, strangely enough is exactly where we are today. What they should do is build, then pause and measure. Once they see the effect of the build, they can determine whether or not to keep building. This also has the effect of not angering folks who are now facing ever crowded conditions on the roadways. What they DID, was just build, biuld, build.
OK, but don't take my word for all this.... please do your own research...
I offer two very good sites that frame the argument well on both sides. Please make up your own mind...
http://www.hjta.org/prop13.htm
http://caltaxreform.org/infrastructure.htm
And to both of you, Homeboy and Linda, I have ready many of your postings and respect your views. My personal history with this City runs very deep. When I see what was promised vs what we have today, I am sorrowed by our leaders lack of vision and wisdom. Where we are with Wal-Mart is no accident. It is the result of a betrayal of faith in what American Canyon can become... I believe a signature City that can put the City of Napa to shame!! One day you will both know who I am and it will make sense.
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
Linda,
I forgot to reply to another point. I do not believe our Attorney ever gives a COMPLETE picture of Legal Codification to our Council. I'm familiar with case law and he sites some cases and opinions that have several pending legal challenges... one that comes to mind is a revision to the Brown Act in regards to a defintion of "open meeting". It may be he feels our Council cannot understand case law or he feels it is not his place to prep them for a law degree but it is incomplete in many instances. To his discredit, he slants his opinion on the side of "less information is better" than bad news. What he is doing is not wrong, but it is not in our best interest to have ANY information filtered. I live on a principal: Give me all the bad news you want, NEVER give me bad information. I've spoken to past Coucilmembers and they have never had a good "feeling" about him.
I forgot to reply to another point. I do not believe our Attorney ever gives a COMPLETE picture of Legal Codification to our Council. I'm familiar with case law and he sites some cases and opinions that have several pending legal challenges... one that comes to mind is a revision to the Brown Act in regards to a defintion of "open meeting". It may be he feels our Council cannot understand case law or he feels it is not his place to prep them for a law degree but it is incomplete in many instances. To his discredit, he slants his opinion on the side of "less information is better" than bad news. What he is doing is not wrong, but it is not in our best interest to have ANY information filtered. I live on a principal: Give me all the bad news you want, NEVER give me bad information. I've spoken to past Coucilmembers and they have never had a good "feeling" about him.
I found your last couple of entries very interesting thanks.-
Guest
spending
Meadowsguy-
I too agree to a point. But don't you think if the city quit spending like a pardon the phrase "a drunkin' sailor" and starts to plan we would also be in better financial position?
Hiring and maintaining staff at the same rate as say Marin, Pleasanton, or Sonoma is outrageous and yet these are the cities that are constantly referenced when the employees want raises.
The city can grow commercially, but look at what is moving in. Three more realtors in Canyon Plaza and two more doctors. Sorry but services generate no tax revenue. Neither do banks, clinics, or gyms. Services don't generate tax revenue, but services are the only thing that can afford the rents.
Developers are constantly given concessions here or there like free hook-ups, lesser fees, or even the ability to do a job for the city (the ultimate deal) but yet they are allowed to rent at above market rates deteriorating the opportunities for smaller businesses and restaurants to have a go at this market. It is actually cheaper to rent in Napa or Vallejo.
That is where the economic development is important.
I too agree to a point. But don't you think if the city quit spending like a pardon the phrase "a drunkin' sailor" and starts to plan we would also be in better financial position?
Hiring and maintaining staff at the same rate as say Marin, Pleasanton, or Sonoma is outrageous and yet these are the cities that are constantly referenced when the employees want raises.
The city can grow commercially, but look at what is moving in. Three more realtors in Canyon Plaza and two more doctors. Sorry but services generate no tax revenue. Neither do banks, clinics, or gyms. Services don't generate tax revenue, but services are the only thing that can afford the rents.
Developers are constantly given concessions here or there like free hook-ups, lesser fees, or even the ability to do a job for the city (the ultimate deal) but yet they are allowed to rent at above market rates deteriorating the opportunities for smaller businesses and restaurants to have a go at this market. It is actually cheaper to rent in Napa or Vallejo.
That is where the economic development is important.
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Guest
Home Depot at old Walmart site
According to the Vallejo Times Herald this morning Walmart is negotiating a lease with Home Depot to take over their site on Meadows when they move their facility either to AC or the old Kmart site. Why didn't AC negotiate with Home Depot if they are willing to move into a smaller big box area than the one Walmart has planned for AC? And Buzz Butler is using this opportunity to support his no urban blight theory! Something is wrong.
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Issa
- Webmaster/Founder
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:25 pm
- SpamStop: NO
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Some sites I found that are worth checking:
http://www.WalmartFacts.com - A pro site
http://www.WalmartWatch.com - An anti site
They had some good stuff to read about, didnt change my mind though since I'm not anti walmart, I am anti super walmart in american canyon. People seem to mix up the two, but there is a big difference!
I picked these two sites since they seemed the most credible, werent a bunch of pro or anti people just posting things to their view. Feel free to post some if you got any, but please, keep them credible, no random sites! Dont just post all 500,000 sites google finds for "Walmart"!
http://www.WalmartFacts.com - A pro site
http://www.WalmartWatch.com - An anti site
They had some good stuff to read about, didnt change my mind though since I'm not anti walmart, I am anti super walmart in american canyon. People seem to mix up the two, but there is a big difference!
I picked these two sites since they seemed the most credible, werent a bunch of pro or anti people just posting things to their view. Feel free to post some if you got any, but please, keep them credible, no random sites! Dont just post all 500,000 sites google finds for "Walmart"!
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
Replying to "Guest".
We probably agree more than we disagree.
I completely agree with you that comparable salary analysis has been "cherry picked" to give City Staff the benefit of the doubt. Vallejo was actually higher I think but it is a much larger city with, I hope you can agree, very very different problems. I don't think MJ would last as Vallejo's CM a week!!
Agree Canyon Plaza is a very poor example of value-added commercial development. It really is just barely hanging on and the only person benefiting from this is the landlord. I've seen the lease agreements and essentially to operate any business there, you work three weeks a month for the landlord and you get to keep the 4th week... ridiculous. The businesses complain that the "signage" ordinance is bad. Reality, your operating margins are too tight because of your rents.
Disagree on Economic Development (ED). Although the concept is good... tailor your commercial build on business that gives you income, the simple fact is that this City Council has LOST 8 YEARS and spent over $200K on the NV Economic Delelopment Assc. and GOTTEN NOWHERE!!! If Economic Development works, it would have worked by now. We have been thru two economic cycles of up and down and nothing substantial has happened in AC. In fact, things have gotten worse.
Maybe a timeline will help...
When we first incorporated, the US economy was in a downturn in the financial sector... if you remember 1992, banks were actually closing or merging and there were many layoffs in retail services also. Macy's files Chapter 11. Federated purchases Macy's for 15 cents on the dollar. KMART in Vallejo had closed a year before and the Safeway (in the center where Harbor Freight tools is also had just closed). First General Plan adopted 1995. First adoption of Title 19, 1996. (I will speak more on Title 19 in followups)
Fast forward to 1996, Redevelopment was brought in as a way to jump start AC from the doldrums of the early 90's. AC was "held hostage" (and still is today) by "absentee" landowners on HW29 who are letting their land stagnate hoping that the value will rise when other land is developed. (The Old Horse Ranch on the corner is the example here. They bought the land, rammed thru zoning for Apartments, magically they pulled out. Effect? The land is worth more now because it is zoned for apartments... do you see the game being played here?) Redevelopment is turned down because of Don Colcleaser and RAA. Residents believe ED should be given a chance.
1997 - 2001 DOT COM BOOOOOMMMMM !!! My God, if we didn't get Economic Development during these years something must be wrong!! Green Island Road see growth but it is "churning growth"... 2 business come in, one leaves... three leave, one comes in. It sustains but does not yield "added advantage". Napa Airport Specific Plan completed. Speaks to "Intensified Retail Development" for the County. AC sues Airport on this plan. Napa Airport is much more a threat to AC Business Environment than Redevelopment. Vallejo's Gateway Plaza explodes in retail growth. Much continues to current day. Napa Town Center sees a revival in retail services, sees a 5 fold rise in occupancy. AC's HW 29 sees "applications" for Canyon Plaza and a Hotel.
2002 - DOT COM BUST !!! WAR in Iraq a possibility.
Do really have to write anything here folks? We are still living this nightmare now. Palby's closes. Golden State Lumber (largest source of business funds for AC) leaves AC. AC "slackens" growth restrictions in residential housing. Fed lowers interest rate in response to massive job losses and record filings of CH11 and CH13s. Housing loans jump due to conversion from Equity Holdings in stock market. Canyon Plaza and Hotel are built. AC still waiting for the "real" ED.
2004 - Wal Mart .
============
The point I'm trying to make is that the current Council and MJ don't get it. AC is and "EDGE CITY".... defined as a city that exists between two "regional centers" (in this case Napa and Vallejo) that experiences all of the impacts of both (traffic, noise, safety, air quality problems) but gains none of the advantages of either!!! Well folks, AC doesn't live bewteen two regional centers, we are between three!!! ... the Airport? Yes, they are a "city" to itself... complete with its own land use commission.
I say again, Wal Mart is NO ACCIDENT. It is here because the current Council and the MJ do not understand economics.
We probably agree more than we disagree.
I completely agree with you that comparable salary analysis has been "cherry picked" to give City Staff the benefit of the doubt. Vallejo was actually higher I think but it is a much larger city with, I hope you can agree, very very different problems. I don't think MJ would last as Vallejo's CM a week!!
Agree Canyon Plaza is a very poor example of value-added commercial development. It really is just barely hanging on and the only person benefiting from this is the landlord. I've seen the lease agreements and essentially to operate any business there, you work three weeks a month for the landlord and you get to keep the 4th week... ridiculous. The businesses complain that the "signage" ordinance is bad. Reality, your operating margins are too tight because of your rents.
Disagree on Economic Development (ED). Although the concept is good... tailor your commercial build on business that gives you income, the simple fact is that this City Council has LOST 8 YEARS and spent over $200K on the NV Economic Delelopment Assc. and GOTTEN NOWHERE!!! If Economic Development works, it would have worked by now. We have been thru two economic cycles of up and down and nothing substantial has happened in AC. In fact, things have gotten worse.
Maybe a timeline will help...
When we first incorporated, the US economy was in a downturn in the financial sector... if you remember 1992, banks were actually closing or merging and there were many layoffs in retail services also. Macy's files Chapter 11. Federated purchases Macy's for 15 cents on the dollar. KMART in Vallejo had closed a year before and the Safeway (in the center where Harbor Freight tools is also had just closed). First General Plan adopted 1995. First adoption of Title 19, 1996. (I will speak more on Title 19 in followups)
Fast forward to 1996, Redevelopment was brought in as a way to jump start AC from the doldrums of the early 90's. AC was "held hostage" (and still is today) by "absentee" landowners on HW29 who are letting their land stagnate hoping that the value will rise when other land is developed. (The Old Horse Ranch on the corner is the example here. They bought the land, rammed thru zoning for Apartments, magically they pulled out. Effect? The land is worth more now because it is zoned for apartments... do you see the game being played here?) Redevelopment is turned down because of Don Colcleaser and RAA. Residents believe ED should be given a chance.
1997 - 2001 DOT COM BOOOOOMMMMM !!! My God, if we didn't get Economic Development during these years something must be wrong!! Green Island Road see growth but it is "churning growth"... 2 business come in, one leaves... three leave, one comes in. It sustains but does not yield "added advantage". Napa Airport Specific Plan completed. Speaks to "Intensified Retail Development" for the County. AC sues Airport on this plan. Napa Airport is much more a threat to AC Business Environment than Redevelopment. Vallejo's Gateway Plaza explodes in retail growth. Much continues to current day. Napa Town Center sees a revival in retail services, sees a 5 fold rise in occupancy. AC's HW 29 sees "applications" for Canyon Plaza and a Hotel.
2002 - DOT COM BUST !!! WAR in Iraq a possibility.
Do really have to write anything here folks? We are still living this nightmare now. Palby's closes. Golden State Lumber (largest source of business funds for AC) leaves AC. AC "slackens" growth restrictions in residential housing. Fed lowers interest rate in response to massive job losses and record filings of CH11 and CH13s. Housing loans jump due to conversion from Equity Holdings in stock market. Canyon Plaza and Hotel are built. AC still waiting for the "real" ED.
2004 - Wal Mart .
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The point I'm trying to make is that the current Council and MJ don't get it. AC is and "EDGE CITY".... defined as a city that exists between two "regional centers" (in this case Napa and Vallejo) that experiences all of the impacts of both (traffic, noise, safety, air quality problems) but gains none of the advantages of either!!! Well folks, AC doesn't live bewteen two regional centers, we are between three!!! ... the Airport? Yes, they are a "city" to itself... complete with its own land use commission.
I say again, Wal Mart is NO ACCIDENT. It is here because the current Council and the MJ do not understand economics.
MeadowsGuy, what is the difference between development and re-development? Surely you have to have one before you can do the other? It would seem that AmCan had not had any economic development at all.
You also mention the rents in Canyon Plaza and the fact that this only benefits the landlord lets not forget that possibly something very similar is going to be built across from Safeway, so not much income there!
Thank you for your informative posts, I may not agree with everything you say but it certainly makes me think. thx
You also mention the rents in Canyon Plaza and the fact that this only benefits the landlord lets not forget that possibly something very similar is going to be built across from Safeway, so not much income there!
Thank you for your informative posts, I may not agree with everything you say but it certainly makes me think. thx
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Guest
Linda, Sorry I'm in the middle of a couple of projects at work. Development and RE-development are kind of like the difference between a hammer and a drill. They have very different uses but tend to accomplish the same thing. Suisun has done VERY WELL with its Waterfront as has Napa with its Town Center... both Redevelopment areas. Having said that, I AM NOT a Flag-Waving Card- Carrying Redevelopment Guy. I prefer to let the market carry things. However AmCan is not a market unto itself... it is an EDGE CITY. Businesses that we "would Like" to see here generally either go to Vallejo OR Napa. We get what's left over. Redevelopment gives control back to the City and not at the whim of folks like Vince Butler.
Did you see in the paper that Home Depot is slated for the Vallejo site when WM closes? This is exactly what the problem is. AND our City Council seems to have bought into this hook,line and sinker.
Did you see in the paper that Home Depot is slated for the Vallejo site when WM closes? This is exactly what the problem is. AND our City Council seems to have bought into this hook,line and sinker.
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Guest
Times Prints Lies
The Times is once again printing lies. Just like it did during the planning commission hearings to keep people from knowing the truth.
Myth: Home Depot is in escrow.
Fact: Home Depot is not in escrow, a developer (friend of Wal-Mart) created an escrow in an attempt to fool the court about "blight". It is all a lie and verified by the corporate offices. Home Depot is in a "no growth" mode shutting down it's Expo division and not building any more stores.
Fact: Wal-Mart is on a year to year lease that expires in December 05.
Fact: Big Box actually has the lease option/purchase of Wal-Mart building.
Fact: The proposed developer who "leaked the Home Depot" nonsense is the one and same who is building the supercenter on the Vallejo White Slough.
This is all a big fat pack of typical Wal-Mart lies in an attempt to fool the judge into thinking that there will be no blight caused. Guess what he saw through the 3mil in damages and he will see through this too.
Obviously they are scared to lose in court, I would be too.
The Times needs to get a better fact checker, this is all public record.
Myth: Home Depot is in escrow.
Fact: Home Depot is not in escrow, a developer (friend of Wal-Mart) created an escrow in an attempt to fool the court about "blight". It is all a lie and verified by the corporate offices. Home Depot is in a "no growth" mode shutting down it's Expo division and not building any more stores.
Fact: Wal-Mart is on a year to year lease that expires in December 05.
Fact: Big Box actually has the lease option/purchase of Wal-Mart building.
Fact: The proposed developer who "leaked the Home Depot" nonsense is the one and same who is building the supercenter on the Vallejo White Slough.
This is all a big fat pack of typical Wal-Mart lies in an attempt to fool the judge into thinking that there will be no blight caused. Guess what he saw through the 3mil in damages and he will see through this too.
Obviously they are scared to lose in court, I would be too.
The Times needs to get a better fact checker, this is all public record.
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MeadowsGuy
- Historian
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:17 am
The developer of White Slough is also lying to the owners of Princess Garden. I eat there from time to time and they are being kept in the dark about what's going in. The landlord is giving them the runaround. One week they tell them its Wal-Mart, the next week its multi-use.
These developers are the type of people we are dealing with on the Wal-Mart project . They "play" the system very well.
These developers are the type of people we are dealing with on the Wal-Mart project . They "play" the system very well.
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mindingcitybiz
- V.I.P.
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:30 pm
WalMart
Don't believe the lies. The walmart building is owned by Big Lots and soon as walmart is out Big Lots is in. My group called Home Depot and they stated they are in a no growth mode in fact they are closing down their Expos stores. It is just propagand because the court date is coming soon.