City Of American Canyon Online Community Forums

Hi! My husband and I have a a deposit down on a new home in an AC development..this one has security gate...just wondering about neighboring crime. I just read about two armed robberies in a week..AC Pizzeria and Starbucks...is this common in the area?Wondering if we are making mistake in moving to AC...we currently live in Petaluma...someone convince me I am not making a mistake about moving to AC...

I was born and raised in AC. I recently returned to my home of origin after losing my parents. We have been in the same place since 1956 (The year the house was built). Even as a young teen I had the utmost respect for the Police and AC. (Of course, it wasn't AC then.) I have now returned to my place of birth and am very excited to be back in the community. I have high praise for AC and it's police force. Although there may be a few scurmishes here and there you really don't need to worry. I haven't felt this safe since I lived in a small town in norther Oregon (pop 360).

I have lived in AC since 1980 and consider this a very safe community. As it grows, we have seen increases in some crimes but nothing unusual. While the two robberies you mention are serious and a concern, they are very abnormal for this community. I feel safe and I am comfortable walking in this community at any time in any area. Since many people, male & female, young and old walk/jog in the streets, I think my views are widely shared. If you wish to know more about our community, leave an e-mail address and I will contact you. Welcome aboard

Thanks for responding... we are buying in Chesapeake development...across from the big La Vigne development. Ours is security gated so I feel a bit safer...and I found out our backyard neighbor is a Napa police officer!

Are there any community groups we could get involved in for homeowners other than neighborhood watch? social groups,etc?

Patty

Good day,
I moved to American Canyon from Petaluma as well. I have lived here for one and one half years now. I have seen the crime rate increasing as well. It is still a lot safer than many other areas. Chesapeake while in a safe area, keep in mind it is just a stones throw from one of the worst parts of Vallejo. 'The Crest' this area is south of you on Flosden before Marine World. I live in Canyon Creek, (next area north of you.) We are starting a watch program with a meeting this Thursday (June 13th 2002)at 7pm in the community center of our association on Canyon Creek Road. Please come. American Canyon is growing fast. A little too fast I am afraid. We are growing at a faster pace than the city services can provide for. Thus less crime coverage and other utilities.

I lived in American Canyon from 1980 to 1997. The crime rate didn't seem bad at all then. I'd move back in a second if I could. The Neighborhood Watch was active too. Good luck there!

Hi Moose! Sorry I missed the neighborhood watch meeting. We are not yet in Chesapeake..our house is one of the last ones being built. Should be in by August. I would like to participate once I am in town. I am aware of proximity of "the crest"...I am happy that are community is security gated...one extra level of protection..hopefully it will not be abused in anyway..but at least it makes it less likely that ne'er dowells will be "cruising" our community since they would have to figure a way into the gates..we'll see. I am still worried overall about the crime rate increasing and would not have chosen Amcan except for the housing prices and this is our starter home. There will be alot of houses in AMcan soon..so I think the immediate needs of basic services is crucial..bigger post office? schools? police force? all that....please keep posting your watch meeting times!

Patty

you guys seriously dont know what crime is. I moved from detroit, the murder capital of the world. This is the most peaceful beautiful place ive ever seen. I think what you guys see is that since nothing happens out here, and when something does then it seems big. Heck, the time it took me to write this there were probly like 10 robberys in detroit.

We've been in AmCan since '93 and yes, we've seen lots of growth, but are overall still quite happy here. One thing to think about with the AC Pizzeria and Starbucks robberies...they are both located on Hwy 29 and the escape for the robbers can be into the many residential areas, onto AmCan Rd and up to Hwy 80, up 29 to Jameson Cyn, into Napa, etc. I don't think these should reflect AmCan itself because it could have been done by people who were just driving through and saw a quick getaway. If it's AmCan residents, then yes, we've got a problem. I have found the law enforcement officers I've dealt with seem to like it in AmCan and care about what goes on here. We need to help them and each other by keeping an eye out for things that don't belong. The only problems we have had were due to so- called friends...so there you go! My in-laws moved to LaVigne and love it. I had spoken with an officer about the area you are living in for my in-laws - as they were looking there as well - and he didn't feel the crime rate was anything to worry about. The crest is something to keep in mind, although I feel more comfortable driving through the area than I did the first few years we were here, so it seems to me that area has gotten better. Enjoy it in AmCan. Good luck!

Hi, dont worry, AC is so safe. Cops are all over. You do live awful close to the crest as someone mentioned, but dont worry about it. You will be fine. I have lived here my hole life (1988) Im 15, and feel extremly safe. Its a small town. With nosy neighbors that watch out for eachother..you'll be fine ashley

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any police in American Canyon, well for about 2 weeks. Where have they been? I see kids without helmets riding bikes that are under 18. I see drive-by's all the time. What's going on to American Canyon, it's going crazy!

I bought a house there...im waiting on it to be built. But Im hearing alot of crazy stories about American Canyon. If you lived in Detroit then you would know what no police means mang. When I went out there I saw tumble weed and such. And if you want drive by's? Come and stay with me for a week before I move out there . Seriously though I didnt see one bad thing happen out there when I was there last month. Maybe I just dont see it because I am from the murder capital of the world? Or perhaps there realy is no crime there? All I know is that I had enough of this place. Thank god for American Canyon.

I think the big problem is that we dont really have a lot of police, when something big goes down, you can usually get away with just about anything since the entire police force is doing something else.

And I would agree AmCan is a safe place, however, its the areas around us, especially Vallejo, where crime seems to spill in.

I know there arnt many citys worse than detroit. Not like a kid with a sling shot scares me ive seen them with worse things hehe. I just wanna drive the moutian pass out there from the highway

Hi, im 14, and live in AC.. I see cops all over, they seem to have control issues, well teh rookies atleast. Iv lived her my hole life, and nothing bad has eer happened. Maybe whoever posted this originally lives very close to vallejo, because, not much happens in AC...Oww kids with no bike helmates, give them a break, they hate them maybe it protects them, but by the law saying that they have to wear them makes it more appealing to them...there are bigger problems in this world them kids without helmates,,,like were in the middle or a war..look at the real problems not the little ones...

The City of American Canyon contracts with the Napa County Sheriff's Department for our police force. The police chief, Doug Koford, is a Lieutenant in the Sheriff's Dept. He has two sergeants and about 10 regular deputies below him. The city's contract asks that the deputies
assigned to American Canyon volunteer to work here and that they are willing to commit to at least one year in American Canyon. The City provides a police station that the deputies report to for work. The city provides American Canyon police uniforms and police cars. This practice is common among smaller cities in California. I have seen many of the deputies in action, and am quite pleased.

Every community has its share of lowlife criminals who leave snail trails, and our city is no exception. I think ours suffers to a degree with the proximity of Vallejo, and especially MINI DRIVE.

Also, if anyone has knowledge of criminal activity and does NOT immediately report it to the appropriate authorities who work for we citizens, then THEY in turn become part of the problem.

Well I posted and earlier message about my concern of crime in AC, and recieved a few replies stating that I was over reacting. Anyway my family and I continued the move out here and are currently spending our second night at the Canyon Manor Apts. First thing this morning I got walk to my car to find 2 of the windows broken out! Needles to say this is very concering. I spoke with the AC police and they told me it was just some kids who had been doing this to nice cars in the area for the past 2 months....brother. To late now I'm here to stay so I'm very interested in getting involved with any programs that might help the community. This would include starting a new bussiness i.e. movie theater, etc...Oh and keeping Walmart out of American Canyon.

I am a little confused. I have been in the area for a few years and have never heard of a drive by shooting within the city limits. I have heard of the rock throwing incidents that have been going on though. Is there drugs and "Low Life's" in American Canyon????????? Absolutely, but isn't there a wide variety of people in every community? I cannot say that American Canyon has a bigger drug problem than any other city. Certainly not bigger than Long Beach or L.A.

American Canyon is a smaller city and almost anything other than a traffic stop is news worhty so you hear more about it. I agree that if you see any type of criminal activity or hear of any criminal activity you should report it to the police. There are here to do there best to protect the city and the residents. It is very easy to sit back and judge the police. Instead of monday morning quarter backing everything they do why don't we come together as a community and help them out. If anyone feels they could do a better job then maybe they should go to school and become an Officer.

As far as the helmet issue. The COPS do have better things to do, but it is also there responsibility to enforce the laws. More importantly it is the jobs of the parents to make sure their kids are safe. Obviously at 14 yrs, the writer does not uderstand increased medical insurance costs and the horror parents have faced becasue their child died and could have possibly lived if they were wearing a helmet.

Instead of complaining about everything lets work together. I agree you are either a part of the solution or part of the problem. The main problem is everybody wants to judge the police and nobody wants to help.

Things Cops Know

Here are some thing's that everyone should know about cops. Pass this along to people you know, it may help you avoid a ticket in the future!!!

-When you see an emergency vehicle behind you with it's lights and sirens on: pull to the RIGHT, and Stop. We are usually required to pass cars on the left.

-Dunkin' donuts has much better coffee than they do doughnuts.

-When you're driving in the fast lane and you see a cop behind you don't, go 5 mph's under the speed limit. We are not impressed by how safe of a driver you can be, we're trying to go help someone (or catch that guy in the SUV that just cut you off). Safely move over and let us pass by you, please.

-If you get a warning instead of a ticket from a motorcycle cop...go buy a lottery ticket, because you've already beaten the odds.

-If a cop causes a car accident we usually get a ticket, and sometimes we get suspended. When is the last time you got 3 days off for rear-ending a guy at Wal-mart.

-If you think you can fan all the pot smoke out of the car before we smell it, good luck.

-We know you've had more than 2 beers. I've never had two beers and driven my car through the front doors of a Toys-R-Us, pissed my pants, and passed out with my foot on the gas.

-Here's how to get out of a ticket, don't break the law in the first place.

-If you drive a piece of junk car; this is why you're getting pulled over. In one week I pulled over 10 cars for "minor" equipment violations.
8 out of 10 had no vehicle insurance, 7 out of 10 had suspended drivers licenses, 5 out of 10 had warrants, 2 out of 10 had felony warrants, and
1 out of 10 was a known sex offender with his 12 year old niece in the car without her mothers knowledge. The 2 out of 10 that didn't have any other violations, one was given a "fix-it-ticket", and the other was given a warning. (if you're trying to do the math many had multiple violations)

-If you've just been pulled over how doing 70 in the 35 DO NOT greet the officer with "what seems to be the problem, officer."

-We get coffee breaks too, and sometimes we run into stores and do some shopping during them.

-When you're the victim of a burglary it would be nice if you take the time you spend waiting for the officer to find the model #'s and the serial #'s of the stuff that was taken.

-Some cops are just jerks, but take heart in the fact that other cops don't like them either.

-If it's nighttime and you're driving a vehicle with tinted windows and I pull you over. It's not because of your skin color, I usually can't tell if the vehicle even has a driver until the windows rolled down.

-Cops make mistakes, and sometimes they're big mistakes.

-Some cops are bad, and sometimes they're real bad.

-Every time you hear on the news about people running from a crazed gun man, someone's son or daughter in a blue or brown uniform is running AT that crazed gun man.

-City cops don't like the highway patrol, and vice versa.

-Yes it's true, cops usually don't give other cops speeding tickets. Think of it as an employee discount, and unless your a habitual speeder all you ever get is a fine.

-If your local police agency has a helicopter everyone knows it's loud and annoying, but did you know it can cover the same area as 15-20 patrol officers, and safely chase criminals that are driving 90 MPH through city streets. Many times the guy has no idea it's there and slows down.

-Your 5 year old kid getting pushed down by another 5 year old kid IS NOT a police matter, talk to the other kids parents.

-If you hit your spouse in front of your children, your children will hit their spouse in front of their children.

-Police work is...writing reports.

-If you rob a gas station your only gonna get $20, but I get to see a K-9 dog use your arm as a chew toy. For all I care you can keep the $20.

-In 1 year of patrol work in a large city only about 10 mins. would be cool enough to be on COPS. But if COPS was about report writing and accident reports each show would be a year long.

-Every traffic stop could end in gunfire, but we have to be polite and professional until that time.

-I've taking about the same amount of men/women to jail for domestic violence, so NO it's not always the man.

-People love fire fighters.

-Attention Victims: I need to know the WHO,WHAT,WHERE,WHEN, and HOW. Not what meds you're on or what your 15 cats have peed on.

-Some cops don't like to be called cops I don't know why, but most don't care we've been called worse.

-And Last but not least: 99% of Police Officers do their job honestly and with great pride, we try to do our job well. Often we have to work in environments where we are the only ones that have to follow the rules. A veteran Sergeant told me on my first day of patrol "when you wear that uniform everything you do is a liability."

We do make mistakes and due to the nature of the job sometimes they have horrible results.

Sometimes minor mistakes cost Police Officers their lives, at a rate of 1 every 50 hours.

Haha, that was pretty good.

Isn't it a shame that the majority of responsible adults in the world rely on others to teach their children right and wrong, enforce the laws that continue to change for political correctness or nice guy reasons and then have the audacity to blame others for the outcome? I love the response and I think more people need to get back to old fashioned lifestyles. What ever happened to treating people as you would have them treat you? I am not very religious, but I do have some self-respect and integrity. This is Small Town USA - the concept is really simple, don't ya think?

I am sorry that I did not read this before. I hope your still living here. What a way to start off your day. I would love to welcome you and your family to American Canyon. Although it may not seem like it but this is a good place to live. I am active in our community both at City level and County. I am pleased you would like to aslo be part of a solution. please email me and I'll give you my number and maybe get together.

Wired sorry to hear about your broken car windows. Although we have a huge disputed debate about walmart and the current city council and planning commissions doing our job the people here are in general very nice. The first couple of years I walked the streets of American meeting my neighbors with children in tow. I never met anybody rude and always felt un-welcomed until I found out the city council was tuting the old vs new debate. Well that just made me mad. Welcome to AmCam and I look forward to working with you as I will be taking petitions around soon to have the current planning commission dismissed for their irresponsible behavior.

Doesn't it seem like crime in Am Can is getting more aggressive or is it my imagination? I read the Register and Am Can seems to have more incidents lately than I have noticed in the past. Are they just reporting more or is crime on an increase?

I don't know, maybe residents are speaking out a little more on what's going on here. I just thought I'd post what happened to us and what we found out yesterday... Now I KNOW this isn't Am Can, but Am Can residents do park here... The park and ride area at 80 and Am Can Rd. Earlier, in Dec., my husbands truck was broken in to. Stereo ripped out. Yesterday, he found a note on ALL the cars that were parked out there that someone's truck had been broken into and the steering column was broken and the car was running. The thief could not get it into drive. Just beware.
Also a few months ago, my neighbor across the street (in AC) had his Tahoe stolen right out of his driveway between the hours of 8am and 10 am ON A SUNDAY MORNING.
Just keep your eyes open and report EVERYTHING. Then and only then will our police force step up with more patrols. Right now you can find them at Starbucks at 9pm on a Sat eve. I am not kidding about that. I have already mentioned it to a few Council members.

As a frequent shopper at that complex Im glad to see the officers out and about and visible in the shopping center. Makes me feel safe. Ive seen officers in Napa and Fairfield Starbucks and I dont think its illegal. They cant be in two places at one time anyways. Just because there not parked on your street in front of your house, isnt a reason to go running to the city council.

Gee, Sorry! Drinking coffee at Starbucks vs. patroling nrighborhoods that need a bit more police attention. Where WAS my mind when I said that!
I have complained to the police about certain things that happen in my neighborhood and I will continue to do so until I see that they care AT ALL! The reason? I am trying to raise a family. My family and all the families around me deserve to live in a safe environment. PERIOD. I will go out of my way to try and make that happen.
Security at the shopping center - great, but we need it too-

no, no your totally right. I must be out of my mind. what am I thinking. cops shouldnt take a break. they should drive around your neighborhood 24/7 never stopping to take a break. yeah that sounds real safe. why should anyone take a break. im sure no one in your family gets a break, or a lunch break while they are at work.

Melissa, you may want to invest in a scanner. I think you would be very interested in knowing that the cops are not just drinking coffee at Starbuck's. Sometimes they are meeting prior to serving a warrant or to
share information they do not want to broadcast over the air. Also, they need to prioritize their calls and possibly your complaints do not require immediate attention. They have always been very responsive when I have called.

Well, I never said they shouldn't take a break, never said they need to be parked out front of my home. No thanks, I don't need a scanner and why attack me on this issue? This is a public forum and I am well within my rights to discuss certain issues. (OOps, I used the word rights, that will stir something up I am sure) Yeah, they are meeting at starbucks on sat eve at 9pm to talk about a warrant they don't want posted over the air. AT STARBUCKS. You are right. I should not expect to live in a safe neighborhood and that my concerns are unwaranted. Who am I anyway.
Give me a break! I am no different than anyone else. If I see something going on, you really think I should just let it go? How do you think I should go about things? Seroiusly. If I talk to the police, I am complaining, if I talk to the City Council, I am complaining. Do I just sit back and let shit happen here? Hell no. But go to it in your neighborhood.
It's not just me having these problems, my entire street is involved.

on your last post you state, "well i never said they shouldnt take a break." but the minute they try and take their 9pm break at starbucks you go running to tell the city council. that doesnt make sense. and were not picking on you, you brought it up. Ive seen the police eating at alot of different establishments in American Canyon. I think that happens in all cities.

Maybe you would be interested in the "Neighborhood Watch" program. Why don't you get all of your neighbors together and meet with the officer in charge of that program. I think you could get their attention then...

Melissa, I would like to know what type of crime your neighborhood is experiencing. My neighborhood has alot of vandals lately.

Yes Melissa it would appear that the entire force is "breaking" at the same time. It's usually that way around 9p.m. I think nurses in an ICU should all break at the same time too, that way when a patient codes they die and free up a bed.

Every other person has to take a break alone if they are on shift duty except the A/C police. Do you think they call in to the dispatcher to let them know? That way the Sheriffs department can be on call.

I support breaks just have them do it in a rotation. Let's at least have the appearance of a safe environment. Just because it seems to be slow in our community doesn't mean we don't need any patrolling. I never see them in my community.

And now there is graffiti on the bridges done by Vallejo gangs who are beginning to infringe in our wonderful community.

I would submit that the police department take lunches, breaks, and dinners in shifts. Oh and back those cruisers in for a quick exit without running over pedestrians.

Melissa you keep complaining somebody will listen.....hopefully!

I think Melissa and A/C Supergirl have NO CLUE!

Changing the subject slightly... where are the bridges in American Canyon?

There are two small bridges on Via Bellagio crossing the creek that flows through the middle of this sub division. By the way, this creek was left to preserve the habitat for a spotted frog or similiar endangered species... Anyway back to the bridges, unlike what some people have spoken about, that graffitti was not put there by Vallejo Gangs, but by a local resident who lives in your community. The police have suspicions as to who the responsible is, but without witnesses to the incident they are unable to prove their case in front of 12 jurors. If you see something in YOUR community, please call it in to the American Canyon Police (648-0171). You dont need to get involved by trying to stop that act, just be a good witness. Get a description of the subjects, get a license plate or vehicle description, anything to help the police locate the people destroying YOUR community. A neighbor got involved when he saw someone hitting golf balls into another house, the responsible was identified and the proper police action was taken.... That is what it is going to take to get YOUR communities to stay the way you like, the way you want.... SAFE, PEACEFUL and BEAUTIFUL.............

Actually I did see the group of 4 black youths who were in a beat up older 4 door car. And I did call the police and was put on hold. I had to continue with my errand. When I remembered my purse was on the counter back home. When I returned they jumped in their car to leave. I tried to watch without being noticed. There was no license plate. In fact they turned left onto Flosden/MWPKWY, through the first light. I never saw an officer.

As a walker in my neighborhood, I have never noticed this vehicle. So I did my part to keep MY neighborhood safe....Any other suggestions?

only one more... if you're a walker, carry your cell phone... If you see somehting dont call 9-1-1 because cell phones calls go to CHP.... program in your local law enforcement dispatch number... 648-0171 and use that to report something you see while enjoying your daily walks....

I just want to bring up another issue that hasnt been touched upon and thats being over assertive. I grew up in AmCan, I was a kid, I remember just riding down the street and some old lady would stare at me and I know in the back of her mind shes going "whats that hoodlum going to do, better watch so I can report it to the police". I even remember once riding my bike and there was this house being built so I drove around in circles checking it out waiting until my friend caught up with me and 5 minutes later this lady is following me in her truck with her husband and she pulls up by me with a microphone asking me what I was doing looking at the house! Sheesh give me a break! Needless to say I told her to go to hell, I wasnt doing anything illegal or wrong, I was being a kid.

Just want to say, theres nothing wrong with and its good that we are assertive but dont be so over assertive and thinking every kid that walks by your house is a hoodlum. But I admit I do it sometimes too.

Wow! If anyone deserves a break once in a while it is the Police officers in our city. Look at all they have to deal with on a daily basis..you'd need a break too! Not only do they need it.. they are entitled to it. Personally if I see them there I would offer to buy their coffee.

Has any body thought about making La Vigne community a gated one to reduce unwanted elements from coming in. If enough residents agree, it can be done. It will also appreciate the house values.

Give me a break police should not all take their breaks at the same time. If that were the case then everyone would know when to commit their crimes. It does look bad to have all the police sitting at starbucks face it they are there quite alot. (Or they just get alot of break time)
As far as response time. They are great on phone call responses but not at actually responseding in person wellllll.

Don't get me wrong they have a job to do and they do it pretty well for the most part. However, they never the job description before they signed up. The ones that have been here the longest I think are still normal people but the new ones have an attitude that shouldn't be.

I watched a little boy go up to one the other afternoon just starry eyed looking at him he asked him if "he liked protecting us" and the police officer told him to step back from him. Turned and walked away.
I wanted to say something so bad but then I would have been going away.

ive been living in American Canyon for about 4 years now and i dont get it! what crime? i guess to me it doesnt seem like much since i was born in long beach and then moved to the crest in vallejo before arriving in american canyon

Police work appears to be a thankless job these days. Communication and action is severally controlled by administrative bodies, so much so, that an officer has to be so careful in what they say and do nowadays.

Everything is scrutinized, and lawyers have a field day with officers in court trying to discredit them or catch them in some lie. And some officers do lie, but most don't.

Then citizens complain about the police due to poor service, or some standard they expected that wasn't met. Whatever the cause, the officer is blamed.

When an officer has a bad attitude, we expect a better one. When an officer shows up late or not at all, we are upset and wonder just what are tax dollars are paying for.

The fact is, even 911 puts you on hold now. And the stories are out there, of individuals calling 911 to report an immediate and life or death situation, being put on hold, just a little too long, with a sad result.

What we just don't want to confront is government is often inefficient, and factors outside of the officers control come into play. For example, an officer has to write reports, handle court appearances, serve warrants, and have a schedule while on duty that can change in an instant with a traffic accident, a chase, a traffic stop requiring back up, and on and on.

I agree that some police can be real jerks, but I also might add, so can we, the public. Especially when we have been drinking, or fighting with family, or under stress, or havent slepted, or are not feeling well.

The police are people, and just like the public they serve, are as stressed as just about anybody. Who wouldn't be, in a job that is often thankless, with pressure from the public they serve, the administrative bodies they answer too, and the demands put on them from often mismanaged funds leaving them shorthanded at times.

In Fairfield, due to financial commitments for public pensions and other long ago negotiated costs, the city has cut public services in order to try to balance budgets. In case you missed it, the police showed their SWAT van that was 15 years old and was hard to start. After being on TV, the city finally approved funds for a new one. The police cannot control this.

The 9 pm break does present opportunity for crime, but frankly, most criminals are too stupid to even notice. Certainly, officers should be given the benefit of the doubt that they are meeting during the shift to get caught up on the days events, and the plan for the evening.

The majority of us need the police a handful of times in our lifetime, and most of police calls are to the same residences, for the same problems, over and over. And you and I get to pay for that.

The days of the happy go lucky police officer are long gone. They went out with people shooting at police, running from police, suing the police, and last, but not least, no longer respecting the police as we once did, in part due to a few well publicized bad apples over the years.

Protest as we may, life in America is not what it once was, from being put on hold when you call 911, to understaffed and underfunded police departments, to a loss of manners and respect for the individual that we once had. Good service, once expected and the norm, is just not so much the case anymore.

Nagging about the police isn't going to change that one bit.

Those in the mobile parks might look at putting together you're own security team. The city could work to create a volunteer community watch group, along with a volunteer community patrol for the entire city of American Canyon.

Lincoln, CA has one, and they give additional support to the police.

A group of say 3 community representatives which field issues from the community, and work withand meet with the police to provide areas of concern, crime, or other undesirable problems may be helpful too.

All in all, crime is minimal here, and the police are present, and make themselves known.

An officer may be a jerk, and if an officer is routinely and consistantly out of line, that officer should be disciplined, reprimanded, or otherwise helped to straighten out their behavior and attitude.

My personal experiences have been positive. Others obviously not so. And then there is the whole issue of costs v benefit.

Improvement is possible, yes, of course, it always is....as none of us, are, perfect.