The City Council just approved a 12 Million dollar line of credit for the new "TEMPORARY COUNCIL CHAMBERS!
You know I find it so funny, these council members feel we the tax payers get to anti up every time they want new digs or something else. How ironic that only Council Member Coffey was the only one who has voted against wasting of tax payer dollars....
Tres Amigos should be called Quatro Amigos/Amiga. Somebody forgot to tell them it wasn't 12 million pesos prior to their vote.
How Much is too Much?
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12 Million Line of Credit
Well MCB... let's look at it this way... With the discovery of that notorious red-legged frog at the Town Center site, this location may be more of a permanent home for the City Hall. I just hope somewhere in the 12 mil they have budgeted for a new audio system... Whoops, maybe we should raise that to 12.5 next meeting!
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Paul Maguire
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lost all support at 12 million....
Buy the Cabernet Village and putting 12 million now of the taxpayers money into that facility and related items as recently approved is just way out of line. THe priorities of this city are all screwed up.
This is fiscally irresponsible, and too much money. Burdening the city with this type of debt is out of line.
If we can afford 12 million for that, we certainly can afford to fix the sewer treatment plant so Oat Hill and other projects can move forward, we certainly can afford to fix our water distribution system, an we certainly can afford to finish veterans park.
Coffey was the only one sensible enough to cast a no vote...shes right on this one.
Originally we are to secure TI's (thats tenant improvements) and buy the building for just shy of 9 million. Now we are talking 12. FOrget it.
This is fiscally irresponsible, and too much money. Burdening the city with this type of debt is out of line.
If we can afford 12 million for that, we certainly can afford to fix the sewer treatment plant so Oat Hill and other projects can move forward, we certainly can afford to fix our water distribution system, an we certainly can afford to finish veterans park.
Coffey was the only one sensible enough to cast a no vote...shes right on this one.
Originally we are to secure TI's (thats tenant improvements) and buy the building for just shy of 9 million. Now we are talking 12. FOrget it.
Consideration
From what I understand a line of credit is similiar to our credit card limit..based on the city's credit worthiness-they have been extended a line of credit of $12M. This doesn't mean they have to use it and will not incur any interest unless it is used.
As far as the road repairs, Veteran's Park and Water treatment..unless I am mistaken.. (lack of) Money has never been the issue..it's been more the time, personnel and environmental issues to repair.
The delays with Veteran's Park are all due to our friendly little red-legged frog and all the environmental studies required to ensure their habitat is protected. The allocated funds are in the general fund and have been for three years for Phase I.
The Council approved additional funding for the water treatment plant.
As for OatHill..We DON'T NEED an additional 1100 or 1200 Homes on that part of town NOT AT THIS TIME. Maybe in 15-20 years once the roads, water pipes and other infrastructure (high school, middle school) are brought up to adequate operational condition. We also need to ensure the businesses currently planned can be viable.
Why is there such a rush to increase our current population by another 5-6K wiith OatHill when there are serious growth issues that already need to be adddressed? And don't get me started on the current real-estate conditions and decline in home prices.. remember smart growth??????
As far as the road repairs, Veteran's Park and Water treatment..unless I am mistaken.. (lack of) Money has never been the issue..it's been more the time, personnel and environmental issues to repair.
The delays with Veteran's Park are all due to our friendly little red-legged frog and all the environmental studies required to ensure their habitat is protected. The allocated funds are in the general fund and have been for three years for Phase I.
The Council approved additional funding for the water treatment plant.
As for OatHill..We DON'T NEED an additional 1100 or 1200 Homes on that part of town NOT AT THIS TIME. Maybe in 15-20 years once the roads, water pipes and other infrastructure (high school, middle school) are brought up to adequate operational condition. We also need to ensure the businesses currently planned can be viable.
Why is there such a rush to increase our current population by another 5-6K wiith OatHill when there are serious growth issues that already need to be adddressed? And don't get me started on the current real-estate conditions and decline in home prices.. remember smart growth??????
Questions for VicRiv
Let's see now VicRiv...you were one of the select residents that met with the City Manager prior to the initial proposal to purchase this building. If you would have seen a possibility of it costing up to $12 million would you have had the same recommendation as you did when it was at $8.3 million? In a very short period of time this project has jumped by approx. $5 million. And please...just because they have this line of credit doesn't mean they are going to use it? IT'S A BLANK CHECK!
You and Cori (the Council's local real estate consultant apparently) are on record as stating this is a good investment for the City. I don't know how many businesses are going to require a Council Chambers for their use? All of these capital improvements are they being built so they can be relocated to a a new City Hall in the Town Center if that ever happens?
Also, after Mr. Maguire posted on this subject the last time as to what he felt the direction of the Council should be in regard to this building (wait and let the construction loan go into default for a better price) You posted
that this building should be purchased "If the price is right."
I ask you "Is it right?"
Even today you post: "And don't get me started on the current real-estate conditions and decline in home prices.. remember smart growth??????"
How about smart investments?????
I find the City Council approving this line of credit a selfish act on their part in order to have offices and Council Chambers...My opinion!
You and Cori (the Council's local real estate consultant apparently) are on record as stating this is a good investment for the City. I don't know how many businesses are going to require a Council Chambers for their use? All of these capital improvements are they being built so they can be relocated to a a new City Hall in the Town Center if that ever happens?
Also, after Mr. Maguire posted on this subject the last time as to what he felt the direction of the Council should be in regard to this building (wait and let the construction loan go into default for a better price) You posted
that this building should be purchased "If the price is right."
I ask you "Is it right?"
Even today you post: "And don't get me started on the current real-estate conditions and decline in home prices.. remember smart growth??????"
How about smart investments?????
I find the City Council approving this line of credit a selfish act on their part in order to have offices and Council Chambers...My opinion!
Yes
IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT..that's correct. The city is conducting due diligence to determine the final price. Would you prefer we continue to pour money down the "rental/lease" hole and stay in our present location? Buying instead of leasing IS a smart investment. Do you rent or own your home? Same decision with a couple more 00s behind it.
The comment I made about the housing has to do with Oat Hill and the negative impact it would have if the AmCan Market was inundated with more inventory.
Let's consider the other tangibles:
a) A high visibility venue which identifies American Canyon
b) Centralized location for all city personnel
c) Adequate Chambers for Commissions, Citizens to utilize
The city currently spends $9593/mo $115,116 annually for Canyon Plaza. *
Constructing a modular would cost $1.92 sq ft for a declining asset*
Leasing Cabernet Village would be $2.25 sq ft*
Purchasing Cabernet Village would be $ 1.84 sq ft for 30 years.*
The city would also realize the benefit of the current and future leasesas well as any appreciation of owning an ASSET. (*** #s were based on info presented to the City Council)
As I said before, the numbers make sense, IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.
The comment I made about the housing has to do with Oat Hill and the negative impact it would have if the AmCan Market was inundated with more inventory.
Let's consider the other tangibles:
a) A high visibility venue which identifies American Canyon
b) Centralized location for all city personnel
c) Adequate Chambers for Commissions, Citizens to utilize
The city currently spends $9593/mo $115,116 annually for Canyon Plaza. *
Constructing a modular would cost $1.92 sq ft for a declining asset*
Leasing Cabernet Village would be $2.25 sq ft*
Purchasing Cabernet Village would be $ 1.84 sq ft for 30 years.*
The city would also realize the benefit of the current and future leasesas well as any appreciation of owning an ASSET. (*** #s were based on info presented to the City Council)
As I said before, the numbers make sense, IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.
Response to VicRiv
VicRiv,
Let's consider the other tangibles:
a) A high visibility venue which identifies American Canyon
It sounds like apparently we are still suffering from that identity crisis from years ago when we wanted our own zip code. And you say high visibility - for who? Commuters on HWY 29 and shoppers at Wal-Mart!
b) Centralized location for all city personnel
Now there is probably a couple hundred feet from the current City Hall to the offices at Canyon Plaza. I can walk it in 3 minutes tops. Granted I have never been behind the desk at the old bank building and maybe that is cramped but who does not have office space. Surely you are not suggesting that the Park & Rec's dept need to relocate from the Community Center offices. Nor would the City Maintenance yard staff be moved to this new location. So who exactly doesn't have enough room?
If the City continued to pay $115K a year to rent office space for the next 10 yrs that would only be $1.5 million. The argument why buy when you can own is ridiculous when you are comparing $12 million to $1.5 million.
c) Adequate Chambers for Commissions, Citizens to utilize
How hard has the City really looked for a new location to hold meetings.
The current building once the Sheriff's Dept moves out is suppose to serve as a Senior Center. Why not change that plan and remodel that building to serve as a Council Chamber/Office area for Council Members and Senior Center. Spend some money to give that building a facelift inside and out so it will serve as a Council Chamber/Senior Center.
Lastly, I want to understand your response. You title your post "Yes"
So am I to understand that you feel the $12 Million price tag would still have had your blessing if it were the first figure you saw?
Let's consider the other tangibles:
a) A high visibility venue which identifies American Canyon
It sounds like apparently we are still suffering from that identity crisis from years ago when we wanted our own zip code. And you say high visibility - for who? Commuters on HWY 29 and shoppers at Wal-Mart!
b) Centralized location for all city personnel
Now there is probably a couple hundred feet from the current City Hall to the offices at Canyon Plaza. I can walk it in 3 minutes tops. Granted I have never been behind the desk at the old bank building and maybe that is cramped but who does not have office space. Surely you are not suggesting that the Park & Rec's dept need to relocate from the Community Center offices. Nor would the City Maintenance yard staff be moved to this new location. So who exactly doesn't have enough room?
If the City continued to pay $115K a year to rent office space for the next 10 yrs that would only be $1.5 million. The argument why buy when you can own is ridiculous when you are comparing $12 million to $1.5 million.
c) Adequate Chambers for Commissions, Citizens to utilize
How hard has the City really looked for a new location to hold meetings.
The current building once the Sheriff's Dept moves out is suppose to serve as a Senior Center. Why not change that plan and remodel that building to serve as a Council Chamber/Office area for Council Members and Senior Center. Spend some money to give that building a facelift inside and out so it will serve as a Council Chamber/Senior Center.
Lastly, I want to understand your response. You title your post "Yes"
So am I to understand that you feel the $12 Million price tag would still have had your blessing if it were the first figure you saw?
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mindingcitybiz
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Yes, Victor always sides with his boys. It is quite evident this is a promise to MJ for helping the boys get into office and most likely a promise to the developer to purchase the property. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. Cabernet Village wasn't even up for discussion until we had a rogue council.
The planning department has outgrown its current location, but with construction going moving at a snails pace and with the limited size of the City, their will be layoffs in the future.
The planning department has outgrown its current location, but with construction going moving at a snails pace and with the limited size of the City, their will be layoffs in the future.
Mindless Blabbering??
MCB- (shaking my head in disappointment)
Rogue Council? I believe they were voted in by the citizens of the town. All of them were including the two women.
MJ Promise: What the heck are you talking about. Still taking your meds? Apparently not because you are listening to the voices in your head (again) lol.
Votes with the boys: Unless Joan and Cindy have extra body organs hmmmmm/ I don't know what you're talking about. I make informed decisions based on facts. You, apparently make emotional decisions based on rhetoric, innuendo and quite frankly, not certain what your basis is...
Anyhoo it's Monday am..I have more important things to do than address your mindless blabbering. Have a nice day.
P.S. As I have always suggested. IF YOU Wish to discuss an issue or really get to know me I would be happy to meet and discuss 647-1792.
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value" Albert Einstein.
Rogue Council? I believe they were voted in by the citizens of the town. All of them were including the two women.
MJ Promise: What the heck are you talking about. Still taking your meds? Apparently not because you are listening to the voices in your head (again) lol.
Votes with the boys: Unless Joan and Cindy have extra body organs hmmmmm/ I don't know what you're talking about. I make informed decisions based on facts. You, apparently make emotional decisions based on rhetoric, innuendo and quite frankly, not certain what your basis is...
Anyhoo it's Monday am..I have more important things to do than address your mindless blabbering. Have a nice day.
P.S. As I have always suggested. IF YOU Wish to discuss an issue or really get to know me I would be happy to meet and discuss 647-1792.
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value" Albert Einstein.
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Paul Maguire
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Re:I disagree
.VicRiv wrote:IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT..that's correct. The city is conducting due diligence to determine the final price. Would you prefer we continue to pour money down the "rental/lease" hole and stay in our present location? Buying instead of leasing IS a smart investment. Do you rent or own your home? Same decision with a couple more 00s behind it.
The comment I made about the housing has to do with Oat Hill and the negative impact it would have if the AmCan Market was inundated with more inventory.
Let's consider the other tangibles:
a) A high visibility venue which identifies American Canyon
b) Centralized location for all city personnel
c) Adequate Chambers for Commissions, Citizens to utilize
The city currently spends $9593/mo $115,116 annually for Canyon Plaza. *
Constructing a modular would cost $1.92 sq ft for a declining asset*
Leasing Cabernet Village would be $2.25 sq ft*
Purchasing Cabernet Village would be $ 1.84 sq ft for 30 years.*
The city would also realize the benefit of the current and future leasesas well as any appreciation of owning an ASSET. (*** #s were based on info presented to the City Council)
As I said before, the numbers make sense, IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.
At the current lease rate using 10k a month as an average, it would take 100 YEARS for the city to pay 12 million in rent. It is NOT money down the drain, rather, it is an expensed item. Further, the time value of money says it is cheaper to rent. The only reason to buy the building would be anticipated appreciation, which is unlikely, given they are paying top dollar for the building today in this market, at that location, in this city which has a host of issues.
The 100 years does not include the COST OF MONEY, which will be millions more.
The BEST thing the city could do is NOT buy this Building, and SIT TIGHT where they are, fix the current sewer system, handle hte water distribution issues, focus on getting the high school done, and move forward with the Oat Hill Project.
Now, as to theOat Hill Project, the city took in 1 million from developers, and has commitments and obligations. No builder is going to build more homes in this market, and as you see, the am can /29 deal is dead now, as Stand Pacfic walked away from doing it.
This issue with Oat Hill is one of entitlements and land planning, which, if worked on today, would likely not be done for at least a year. There are schools sites, park sites and other needs of the community in that plan. HOme building is only a part of it.
Back to the building deal: IF the city is doing DUE DILIGENCE, then why the hell did the city give the seller a non refundable 50k deposit from day one as I understand it? Because they have every intention of doing this deal, are not doing due diligence, and as I have stated time and time again, need PROFESSIONS IN COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE to represent them- they have given away thousands of dollars in taxpayer money in past mistakes, and here they are committiing millions of taxpayer dollars without GOOD GUIDANCE or HELP from PRofessionals in the COmmercial Side.
It is mindboggling why they believe they know what they are doing in a 7 million dollar purchase when not one person on this council has even bought a piece a real estate for 1 million, let along 7. They are so Self Confident and Arrogant, at the cost of hte taxpayers. Even Donald Trump uses advisers, lawyers, commercial real estate brokers- as do just about every other person active in real estate- but this city in the past uses the former city manager and the fire chief, or the public works director, or some other person completely out of their field of expertise.
Its a head shaker so bad it makes you fall over from the dizzyness.
Mr. Maguire's Post
There are over 150 registered users on this web-site. I find it very disheartening to see so few post their opinion on the most recent issue of the City Council approving the purchase of Cabernet Village.
How many residents live here? 15,000? Mr. Maguire, I am hoping you will step up and inform the public of the misuse of our funds. (Maybe another CD...very innovative by the way and I recently read the Fire Dept is making their own regarding Safety Issues.)
You received over 800 votes in the last election. Actually, tied with Ms. Coffey. You are a voice of reason and regardless of your suit regarding sign placement during the last election...have "Common Sense"...And investment knowledge!
Where are the people that want Kimberly Park to be safe for our kids to play soccer ? Where are the people that question the safety of our kids crossing the highway to get to the new high school? What is wrong with this community not to question $12 MILLION to have a Council Chamber ?
Council Members...are you really representing those that supported you?
I still see garbage, grafitti, and neighborhoods that could use an extreme makeover...
I also see, self serving and as Mr. Maguire put it, "arrogant" individuals sending us down the tubes...(If only the sewer system worked!)
We are going to be led by a "therapist" with ties to Napa into the URL battle with the County...Good Luck to Us...the writting is already on the wall... which reminds me...look at the graffiti on the pathway that runs along the path behind the Police Dept...
Lets say, I am absolutely discusted!!!
How many residents live here? 15,000? Mr. Maguire, I am hoping you will step up and inform the public of the misuse of our funds. (Maybe another CD...very innovative by the way and I recently read the Fire Dept is making their own regarding Safety Issues.)
You received over 800 votes in the last election. Actually, tied with Ms. Coffey. You are a voice of reason and regardless of your suit regarding sign placement during the last election...have "Common Sense"...And investment knowledge!
Where are the people that want Kimberly Park to be safe for our kids to play soccer ? Where are the people that question the safety of our kids crossing the highway to get to the new high school? What is wrong with this community not to question $12 MILLION to have a Council Chamber ?
Council Members...are you really representing those that supported you?
I still see garbage, grafitti, and neighborhoods that could use an extreme makeover...
I also see, self serving and as Mr. Maguire put it, "arrogant" individuals sending us down the tubes...(If only the sewer system worked!)
We are going to be led by a "therapist" with ties to Napa into the URL battle with the County...Good Luck to Us...the writting is already on the wall... which reminds me...look at the graffiti on the pathway that runs along the path behind the Police Dept...
Lets say, I am absolutely discusted!!!
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mindingcitybiz
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mindingcitybiz
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Re: Mindless Blabbering??
It was a loose term meaning Joan and the Tres Amigos will all vote together as they did for Cabernet Village. The only opposing vote was Council Member Coffey.VicRiv wrote:
Votes with the boys: Unless Joan and Cindy have extra body organs hmmmmm/ I don't know what you're talking about. I make informed decisions based on facts. You, apparently make emotional decisions based on rhetoric, innuendo and quite frankly, not certain what your basis is...
Well yes we have many projects on the books, but what happens when we are all built out in the next 10 years? Won't there be a lot of full-time employees standing around not doing anything? Seems like you didn't do your homework.VicRiv wrote: By the way.. Layoffs? Again, what is the basis for this comment?
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Paul Maguire
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just an FYI
Thanks for your comments. Just an FYI- the city lost the lawsuit and I prevailed in Federal Court. The 20 page decision by Federal Judge Joseph Spero, in United States District Court, concluded, amongts other things thatYou are a voice of reason and regardless of your suit regarding sign placement during the last election...have "Common Sense"...And investment knowledge!
" the prohibition on posting of political signs on public property is unconstitutional" This is one of several unconstitutional issuesnoted in the "FIndings of Fact and Conclusions of Law"
I would argue that my suit was the voice of reason, against many voices, some of this council, that were willing to ignore the US Constitution. Clearly the court agreed
Case number C-06-5681-JCS
How Much Is Too Much
$6.6 million loan for new AmCan City Hall
By KERANA TODOROV
Register Staff Writer
Saturday, April 07, 2007
American Canyon will take a $6.6 million loan to finance the purchase of its new city hall at Cabernet Village, the City Council voted Thursday.
The city is expected to spend up to $9.8 million to purchase and turn the top floor of two-story building into administration offices and a City Council chambers, according to city officials. The cost of the building is $6.9 million and improvements are estimated at $2.1 million.
Thursday’s vote was 4-1, with City Councilwoman Cindy Coffey voting against the majority.
The move will allow the city to house all administration, planning and public works staff at one location. It will no longer need to lease space at Canyon Plaza.
The city had previously considered seeking a $12 million loan for the new City Hall and other projects.
According to a city report, leases on the first floor will generate $340,000 in revenues. Tenants on the first floor of the Cabernet Village building include a law firm, Gravett & Frater, Napa Land Title, the American Canyon School of Music, and Cabernet Village Construction.
The City Hall building on Crawford Way could be leased to a nonprofit organization or other group for about $80,000 a year.
By KERANA TODOROV
Register Staff Writer
Saturday, April 07, 2007
American Canyon will take a $6.6 million loan to finance the purchase of its new city hall at Cabernet Village, the City Council voted Thursday.
The city is expected to spend up to $9.8 million to purchase and turn the top floor of two-story building into administration offices and a City Council chambers, according to city officials. The cost of the building is $6.9 million and improvements are estimated at $2.1 million.
Thursday’s vote was 4-1, with City Councilwoman Cindy Coffey voting against the majority.
The move will allow the city to house all administration, planning and public works staff at one location. It will no longer need to lease space at Canyon Plaza.
The city had previously considered seeking a $12 million loan for the new City Hall and other projects.
According to a city report, leases on the first floor will generate $340,000 in revenues. Tenants on the first floor of the Cabernet Village building include a law firm, Gravett & Frater, Napa Land Title, the American Canyon School of Music, and Cabernet Village Construction.
The City Hall building on Crawford Way could be leased to a nonprofit organization or other group for about $80,000 a year.
Sometimes You Can Make A Change
The 12 Million $ price tag was outrageous to me. Now it has dropped to 6+ million before improvements. I can live with that...
I do have a question.
What is the monthly loan payment for this building? (Including any property tax).
I do have a question.
What is the monthly loan payment for this building? (Including any property tax).
Not to Sound Negative...But!
What Non-Profit in AC could afford $80K a year???
Sell It!
Sell It!
Sometimes You Can Make A Change
for a $6.6 million loan at 7.25%(i'm not sure what rate the city got, but this rate is from the internet) rate amortized over 25 years the payments would be $47,705/ month.
The city takes in $340K a year for the current rent. Assuming the $340K is net profits then the income per month is $340K/12 = $28,333.
Property taxes if at 1% of purchase price is $69,000/ yr or $5750 per month. Assuming that property taxes are only half because the tenants pay the other half of the property taxes then it would be $2875/month
Therefore, cost to city per month for a $6.6 million loan with property tax is:
$47,705 - $28,333 + $2875= $22,246
We also shouldn't forget that the city has to plop down $2.9mil for the down payment/improvements.
The city takes in $340K a year for the current rent. Assuming the $340K is net profits then the income per month is $340K/12 = $28,333.
Property taxes if at 1% of purchase price is $69,000/ yr or $5750 per month. Assuming that property taxes are only half because the tenants pay the other half of the property taxes then it would be $2875/month
Therefore, cost to city per month for a $6.6 million loan with property tax is:
$47,705 - $28,333 + $2875= $22,246
We also shouldn't forget that the city has to plop down $2.9mil for the down payment/improvements.